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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Minigiant" data-source="post: 8543268" data-attributes="member: 63508">I'm not saying you are claiming D&D is beyond criticism.I was merely quoting your port to stay on topic.However I think many fans fans downplay the impacts of tradition, oldness, and firstness in design.D&D has many aspects where Mechanic X is a major contributor of Situation Y. And when complaint threads on Y and comments complaining the complaints of Y appear, if you mention that X supports Y there is a huge backlash.  And that backlash is almost always defended with appeals to tradition and now displays on 5e's success.D&D is more or less proof that if you get enough right it can hide major flaws and be successful.The reason why you keep this discussion over and over and over and over is the fans enjoy 2 things that aren't compatible in you don't zoom in on it with a scalpel.<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">A fighter with simple games mechanics, easy math, and numbers that go up in a mostly linear curve</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">A wizard that is mechanically complex, haves complicated math, and a spell system not beholding to being aetheticallyy easy to look and not remember.</li> </ol>There's a reason why 5e could copy a lot of 3e's skeleton system but remove CODzilla so easily that no one even mentions it.</blockquote>