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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 8545209" data-attributes="member: 6801845">I agree that wizards are different.&nbsp; The different classes have different strengths and weaknesses.&nbsp; In some situations one will be more optimal than another.&nbsp; But in the cases where the bad guys can target the wizards directly without interference from the fighters in the group, the wizards go down far faster than the fighters ever would in my experience.&nbsp; Does that make wizards irrelevant?&nbsp; No, it just means they serve different roles.The same way with teleport.&nbsp; I assume that if you had no one with teleport in the party and no access to it, the DM would still come up with a campaign, correct? Where the conflicts happen my change, how you get there will likely change.&nbsp; But the story would go on.&nbsp; Teleportation is a superficial crutch that can be used to tell different stories if that's the kind of story you want to tell.&nbsp; Same with spells like plane shift.&nbsp; My group is currently stuck on a different plane and are fighting to get back because they can't simply cast a spell.&nbsp; I think it's more interesting that way.&nbsp; Plane shift back home would be boring and not give me the option to tell people more about the plane they're on.The encounters the party face will still be just as dangerous as the DM decides.&nbsp; The stories just as interesting.&nbsp; How you, or your enemy, achieves their goal will change.&nbsp; The game is not fundamentally changed. The wizard shines sometimes.&nbsp; Cool.&nbsp; But in my games while the wizard does awesome things now and then, the fighter does cool things all the time.&nbsp; If all you care about is bright and shiny, there are plenty of options.&nbsp; Some of us like having an alternative.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 8545209, member: 6801845"] I agree that wizards are [I]different[/I]. The different classes have different strengths and weaknesses. In some situations one will be more optimal than another. But in the cases where the bad guys can target the wizards directly without interference from the fighters in the group, the wizards go down far faster than the fighters ever would in my experience. Does that make wizards irrelevant? No, it just means they serve different roles. The same way with teleport. I assume that if you had no one with teleport in the party and no access to it, the DM would still come up with a campaign, correct? Where the conflicts happen my change, how you get there will likely change. But the story would go on. Teleportation is a superficial crutch that [I]can[/I] be used to tell different stories if that's the kind of story you want to tell. Same with spells like plane shift. My group is currently stuck on a different plane and are fighting to get back because they can't simply cast a spell. I think it's more interesting that way. Plane shift back home would be boring and not give me the option to tell people more about the plane they're on. The encounters the party face will still be just as dangerous as the DM decides. The stories just as interesting. How you, or your enemy, achieves their goal will change. The game is not fundamentally changed. The wizard shines sometimes. Cool. But in my games while the wizard does awesome things now and then, the fighter does cool things all the time. If all you care about is bright and shiny, there are plenty of options. Some of us like having an alternative. [/QUOTE]

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