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Chris Perkins doesn't use Passive Insight
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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5729184" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>Meh. PC abilities should never be infallible, especially abilities that relate to knowledge.</p><p></p><p>No illusions.</p><p></p><p>No mysteries.</p><p></p><p>No surprises.</p><p></p><p>Everything the DM utters is either the absolute truth of what the PCs observe or know, or the players know that the DM is lying because the dice in front of them say so.</p><p></p><p>Meh.</p><p></p><p>The game is often a lot more fun when the players are sometimes led down the primrose path and suddenly, they are not in Kansas anymore. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite6" alt=":cool:" title="Cool :cool:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":cool:" /></p><p></p><p>That's one of the best ways to challenge your players. Don't protect them from bad info, embrace it. That's not to say that the DM should constantly be giving the players bad info and always be a rat bastard, but he shouldn't spoon feed his players with "yes Timmy, this is what your PC absolutely 100% knows" either.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The purpose of an NPC bluffing is to Bluff. If the player doesn't make the Insight check, the PC and the player should be bluffed. The player shouldn't be constantly protected via "you cannot tell" and hence the player knows he missed the roll, nor should the player know that he rolled a 1 on the die and hence, the info is automatically questionable.</p><p></p><p>PC: "We've come 100 miles to kill the Evil Wizard of the Vale."</p><p>NPC peasant: "Evil Wizard? There hasn't been an evil wizard in the Vale for a hundred years."</p><p></p><p>This is much better than the players automatically knowing before the PCs even traveled the 100 miles that they missed on their Insight checks, so although an earlier NPC bluffed the PCs into thinking that the evil wizard exists, the players know they screwed up their rolls, so they might not travel in that direction.</p><p></p><p>PC 1: "That's a Death Archer. He's tough with a bow. Lock him down."</p><p>PC 2: "How come the Death Archer isn't using his bow and is cutting us down with a sword?"</p><p></p><p>One method spoon feeds the players with the exact knowledge that they always need. The other method keeps the players on their toes because most of the time, the info is correct. Some of the time, the players are misled by unlucky dice rolls.</p><p></p><p>Adding mystery and misdirection to a game is awesome. Not doing so? Meh.</p><p></p><p></p><p>And, having the occasional poorly rolled skill check be misleading is a potential way to get players to focus on skills a bit more and not always be only getting combat feats and powers. To me, missing on a skill check should be just as challenging as missing on a combat roll.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 5729184, member: 2011"] Meh. PC abilities should never be infallible, especially abilities that relate to knowledge. No illusions. No mysteries. No surprises. Everything the DM utters is either the absolute truth of what the PCs observe or know, or the players know that the DM is lying because the dice in front of them say so. Meh. The game is often a lot more fun when the players are sometimes led down the primrose path and suddenly, they are not in Kansas anymore. :cool: That's one of the best ways to challenge your players. Don't protect them from bad info, embrace it. That's not to say that the DM should constantly be giving the players bad info and always be a rat bastard, but he shouldn't spoon feed his players with "yes Timmy, this is what your PC absolutely 100% knows" either. The purpose of an NPC bluffing is to Bluff. If the player doesn't make the Insight check, the PC and the player should be bluffed. The player shouldn't be constantly protected via "you cannot tell" and hence the player knows he missed the roll, nor should the player know that he rolled a 1 on the die and hence, the info is automatically questionable. PC: "We've come 100 miles to kill the Evil Wizard of the Vale." NPC peasant: "Evil Wizard? There hasn't been an evil wizard in the Vale for a hundred years." This is much better than the players automatically knowing before the PCs even traveled the 100 miles that they missed on their Insight checks, so although an earlier NPC bluffed the PCs into thinking that the evil wizard exists, the players know they screwed up their rolls, so they might not travel in that direction. PC 1: "That's a Death Archer. He's tough with a bow. Lock him down." PC 2: "How come the Death Archer isn't using his bow and is cutting us down with a sword?" One method spoon feeds the players with the exact knowledge that they always need. The other method keeps the players on their toes because most of the time, the info is correct. Some of the time, the players are misled by unlucky dice rolls. Adding mystery and misdirection to a game is awesome. Not doing so? Meh. And, having the occasional poorly rolled skill check be misleading is a potential way to get players to focus on skills a bit more and not always be only getting combat feats and powers. To me, missing on a skill check should be just as challenging as missing on a combat roll. [/QUOTE]
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