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Chris Perkins doesn't use Passive Insight
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 5729345" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>You often get a situation, when 5 characters are rolling for the same check, where <em>someone</em> inevitably makes it, just with a lucky roll. In that case, it's pointless to even ask for the roll. Just tell them who is lying. They are going to find it out anyway. </p><p></p><p></p><p>This results in the same situation as above. Everyone piling on the same check leads to HUGE bonuses that inevitably reveal what the check was for anyway, invalidating the need for a check. </p><p></p><p>That's just mathematics, man. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>Debatably. Skill plays a vairable role in any game. In Monopoly, forex, success in the game is mostly about the luck of the die roll -- if you hit Boardwalk before anyone else, you're solid, but if you roll low repeatedly and spend most of your time in the purple and orange streets, your investment won't help you out in the long run, unless every other player has a string of bad luck and gets trapped in your slums. I'd think most people would balk at calling Snakes & Ladders "not a game" (in that case, what is it?!), just as they'd balk at saying The Sims is "not a game" (despite not having clearly outlined victory conditions and thus no way for "player skill" to contribute to any concrete goals). </p><p></p><p>It's also true that the "social interaction, insight, puzzle solvivng, memory" aren't necessarily truly relevant player skills in an RPG. In using Passive Skills, even for social interactions, I'm telling my players that they don't need to worry about determining themselves if every NPC they talk to is being honest or not -- their characters have a failsafe for that. Player strategy comes in when they determine if the failsafe is "good enough" based on how their character feels about the antagonist in question. If the player just thinks it's a normal deception, they may rely on their passive skill; if the player feels that it might be a bigger deal, they'll roll, and risk failure. </p><p></p><p></p><p>The way the game is designed at the moment, that is the place most strategy comes in. It's part of the reason why I miss effects like <em>Charm Person</em> or <em>Detect Lies</em> that let a player spend a resource to affect their chances of success in a noncombat encounter, and why I endeavor to add effects like this back into the game. </p><p></p><p></p><p>If it's not a rule that is often included in play, but it's very important, it's not a very well-designed rule. Possibly, in this case, it is because it abandons mechanics in favor of personal persuasion power and favoritism, leading to the sense that the winner is just the most charismatic person at the table, or the person with the most friends. Which is accurate to the world of real estate, certainly, but it doesn't make for the most fun <em>play</em> for a lot of folks. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 5729345, member: 2067"] You often get a situation, when 5 characters are rolling for the same check, where [I]someone[/I] inevitably makes it, just with a lucky roll. In that case, it's pointless to even ask for the roll. Just tell them who is lying. They are going to find it out anyway. This results in the same situation as above. Everyone piling on the same check leads to HUGE bonuses that inevitably reveal what the check was for anyway, invalidating the need for a check. That's just mathematics, man. ;) Debatably. Skill plays a vairable role in any game. In Monopoly, forex, success in the game is mostly about the luck of the die roll -- if you hit Boardwalk before anyone else, you're solid, but if you roll low repeatedly and spend most of your time in the purple and orange streets, your investment won't help you out in the long run, unless every other player has a string of bad luck and gets trapped in your slums. I'd think most people would balk at calling Snakes & Ladders "not a game" (in that case, what is it?!), just as they'd balk at saying The Sims is "not a game" (despite not having clearly outlined victory conditions and thus no way for "player skill" to contribute to any concrete goals). It's also true that the "social interaction, insight, puzzle solvivng, memory" aren't necessarily truly relevant player skills in an RPG. In using Passive Skills, even for social interactions, I'm telling my players that they don't need to worry about determining themselves if every NPC they talk to is being honest or not -- their characters have a failsafe for that. Player strategy comes in when they determine if the failsafe is "good enough" based on how their character feels about the antagonist in question. If the player just thinks it's a normal deception, they may rely on their passive skill; if the player feels that it might be a bigger deal, they'll roll, and risk failure. The way the game is designed at the moment, that is the place most strategy comes in. It's part of the reason why I miss effects like [I]Charm Person[/I] or [I]Detect Lies[/I] that let a player spend a resource to affect their chances of success in a noncombat encounter, and why I endeavor to add effects like this back into the game. If it's not a rule that is often included in play, but it's very important, it's not a very well-designed rule. Possibly, in this case, it is because it abandons mechanics in favor of personal persuasion power and favoritism, leading to the sense that the winner is just the most charismatic person at the table, or the person with the most friends. Which is accurate to the world of real estate, certainly, but it doesn't make for the most fun [I]play[/I] for a lot of folks. :) [/QUOTE]
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