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Message: <blockquote data-quote="fusangite" data-source="post: 1941417" data-attributes="member: 7240">To keep track of this thread, I'm now posting a longer response:First of all, here are the books recommended so far:Yep. That's the point from which I'm proceeding. There is no way to adapt either the D&D spell mechanics or the spells themselves to the setting.You're largely right here. I'm currently designing the mechanic for intermediated magic that comes from God/angels/demons. But, as you point out, there was also natural magic at this time. In fact, the charms used in folk magic were an ugly incoherent mix of natural magic and the invocation of spiritual beings. Alchemy was, for the most part, natural magic. So, I might as well ask for thoughts on the natural magic of the time (although it probably won't be much used in the campaign).What are people's views of how to handle natural magic as opposed to supernatural magic?Assume yes. Although this is not 100% true, it is generally true for the purposes of the game.I'm not aware that at this point in history there were sins for which forgiveness was impossible.  I thought everyone could be forgiven before death, even if they still had to be executed. Regarding the holy places, there is a big debate in the field today over whether the places had properties or if those properties emanated exclusively from the relic associated with the place. Aside from the angel caverns of Monte Gargano, I'm not much aware of places with inherent healing properties until after the Reformation. I agree very much about the need to pick the correct saint. There are three factors I'm building into the mechanic for this: proximity to the relic, "portfolio" of the saint, merits of the saint (ie. distance from God's right hand). True kings were typically understood to cure scrofula. Yes. But this is transsubstantiation not transqualiation -- so none of that iron-rich flavour.Understood and agreed. Otherwise heretics' and pagans' magic would need their own mechanics.Not the case. By the 13th century, you just have Lithuania and the Slavic revival that hits Eastern Germany. Agreed. This is why we get the ugly mix of angelic magic and natural magic in folk charms.Again, I think you're thinking of the period about 300 years earlier with respect to the adaptation of pagan customs like Rood Trees. But you're quite right about faeries et al; in fact, the 13th century is when they get the name "fairy" imported from Persian "peri" legends. This is where our fairies become more hierarchical as they harmonize with Muslim stories.Done. Here is an incomplete list so far of priestly magic effects:1. Reversing barrenness/aid in conception2. Prophetic dreaming3. Forcing people to tell the truth4. Physical signs of evil/good5. Invisible signs of evil/good6. Blessing objects7. Calling/stopping storms8. Curing diseases/injuries9. Calming/exciting emotions10. Immunity to weather11. Exorcism12. Excommunication13. Cancellation/reversal of demonic magic14. Making money/materials undepletable15. Detecting metals16. Magnifying authority (intimidation/persuasion)17. Transqualiation/transsubstantiation of substancesSome magic used only by pagans/heretics:1. Love magic2. Augury3. DiviningAgreed. This is being incorporated.This is really well-described. The problem is that I can't think of a mechanical way to do this. Direct take-overs I can do but this is tough to think through on a mechanical level so any thoughts you have would be appreciated.Absolutely correct here. But I love some of the examples you give. Can you direct me to the specific saints' lives here? My knowledge of Saints' lives is all pre-900 and I have to furiously catch up.Apparently this is called apotropaic magic and it thought to account for about 80% of all pre-Renaissance magic.Any thoughts on how to deal with this mechanically? I am using BRP from Runequest so there are hit locations.I have a bit of a problem here. Doesn't magic just make a creature receptive to conversion by removing demonic influences, cleansing its soul, calming it, etc.? Isn't the actual conversion still an act of free will? I rolled these two together because it seems like they could be done using the same mechanic. Does this make sense?This all makes sense and will be adopted.I will be using a variant of Chaosium's one on one spirit combats. But the example you offer is more like a calming effect created by a lot of people assisting the primary petitioner.I agree that this seems like the logical way to run magic and place limits on the use of abilities but the idea seems so phenomenally anti-Christian, I'm still searching for an alternative. I see what you mean here: I would be inclined to go with the elf model and simply have passive use of perception skills if they reach a very high level. A skill might be useable passively only at -10 or -15; thus, one would need +11 or +16 in the skill in order for it to go off passively and notice the lurking demons.Or just the "assist" mechanic with a high threshold like 20; this is especially sensible when one deals with the phenomenon of rulers assigning masses of clergy to all pray for the same important thing.Like so many of your suggestions, this is superb and is being stolen immediately!</blockquote>

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