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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5170475" data-attributes="member: 4937">I knew what you were talking about, that's why I said I knew where you were going.&nbsp; And look, you did.I'm absolutely 100% on board with that.But that's not what is going on here.Why not?&nbsp; If it is a reasonable solution to the problem at hand, by all means reward the creativity.&nbsp; I'm very much for that.&nbsp; But that, is not this:Now we have moved into completely different territory.I would like to assume that, but you keep insisting on a DM that is secretly adjusting the game world based on player propositions.&nbsp; And that is going to end up resulting in players that feel the need to hold secret conferences just to keep the terrain under their feet from changing all the time.&nbsp; It's like fudging the dice to achieve particular outcomes, or railroading.&nbsp; I won't argue that there is never any situation where it isn't a good idea because few rules are that absolute, but 99 times in 100 its probably a bad idea.There are times when players should be allowed to contribute to the narrative and shape things in the game world outside of their own character, but really, the 'secrets' of the game aren't really one of those things that should be included in that.&nbsp; For the same reason most mature players don't want to peek behind the screen and read the module or adventure outline you've prepared, I would think most of them would not think to kindly of you cribbing notes from them.&nbsp; You've stolen their surprise.&nbsp; They don't want to know what is going on.&nbsp; It's one thing to work with your players to create game content.&nbsp; I'm all for that sort of open exchange of ideas.&nbsp; It's one thing to give leave to your player to create what ever he feels appropriate to make his character complete, like leaving the player of a cleric to invent religious phrases and sophistry of whatever sort.&nbsp; But its quite another thing to say, &quot;The players have decided that its Mr. Green in the Library with the Candlestick, so I'll change it so that Mr. Green really did it and not Mrs. White.&quot;&nbsp; That's as bad as deliberately playing the monsters stupidly and attacking the highest AC character with the highest hitpoints remaining in the fight.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 5170475, member: 4937"] I knew what you were talking about, that's why I said I knew where you were going. And look, you did. I'm absolutely 100% on board with that. But that's not what is going on here. Why not? If it is a reasonable solution to the problem at hand, by all means reward the creativity. I'm very much for that. But that, is not this: Now we have moved into completely different territory. I would like to assume that, but you keep insisting on a DM that is secretly adjusting the game world based on player propositions. And that is going to end up resulting in players that feel the need to hold secret conferences just to keep the terrain under their feet from changing all the time. It's like fudging the dice to achieve particular outcomes, or railroading. I won't argue that there is never any situation where it isn't a good idea because few rules are that absolute, but 99 times in 100 its probably a bad idea. There are times when players should be allowed to contribute to the narrative and shape things in the game world outside of their own character, but really, the 'secrets' of the game aren't really one of those things that should be included in that. For the same reason most mature players don't want to peek behind the screen and read the module or adventure outline you've prepared, I would think most of them would not think to kindly of you cribbing notes from them. You've stolen their surprise. They don't want to know what is going on. It's one thing to work with your players to create game content. I'm all for that sort of open exchange of ideas. It's one thing to give leave to your player to create what ever he feels appropriate to make his character complete, like leaving the player of a cleric to invent religious phrases and sophistry of whatever sort. But its quite another thing to say, "The players have decided that its Mr. Green in the Library with the Candlestick, so I'll change it so that Mr. Green really did it and not Mrs. White." That's as bad as deliberately playing the monsters stupidly and attacking the highest AC character with the highest hitpoints remaining in the fight. [/QUOTE]

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