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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5170556" data-attributes="member: 4937">The 1 time in 100 that I think this is appropriate is when you've screwed up, you know you've screwed up, and you need to gracefully cover your mistake.&nbsp; To continue our clue analogy, the situation I can imagine doing this would be, you were winging it (for whatever reason, poor preparation, this is a pick up game, or the players got off the rails some where you didn't plan for) and you accidently affirmed to the players something that let's Mrs. White completely off the hook and there is no way to recover from it without a retcon.&nbsp; In this case, since the mistake is your fault and you've already wrecked your game, the most graceful way out of the mess is to change anything you haven't revealed rather than trying to change things you have.The recalcitrant stance I'm taking in this thread is with respect to the OP's and others in the thread apparant desire to label this as some sort of artful DMing style that should be emulated and encouraged in others.&nbsp; I think it should be on a relatively high shelf and carefully labelled, &quot;Use with caution.&quot;, and not at all part of the DM's regular tool set.I have no problem with Mr. Green taking the fall.&nbsp; I can keep Mrs. White as the guilty party (which she was all along).&nbsp; The PC's were defeated by their foe, the nefarious and cunning Mrs. White.&nbsp; While this wasn't the expected result, neither is it a bad result which I ought to squash purely to get the players back on my expected storyline.&nbsp; This gives me the oppurtunity to bring Mrs. White back as a reoccuring villain, which will ultimately mean, when the PC's and Mrs. White tangle next time, that their now delayed victory will be all that more sweet.&nbsp; I would look forward with great anticipation to, some number of sessions down the road, the point where the PC's realize that they were had.&nbsp; This would likely create one of the greatest things a DM can create - a villain worthy of the player's respect, begrudging admiration, and sincere hatred.&nbsp; I would feel absolutely no need to 'salvage' such a situation.But if you change the villain from Mrs. White to Mr. Green, I don't see how anything good can come out of it in this situation.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 5170556, member: 4937"] The 1 time in 100 that I think this is appropriate is when you've screwed up, you know you've screwed up, and you need to gracefully cover your mistake. To continue our clue analogy, the situation I can imagine doing this would be, you were winging it (for whatever reason, poor preparation, this is a pick up game, or the players got off the rails some where you didn't plan for) and you accidently affirmed to the players something that let's Mrs. White completely off the hook and there is no way to recover from it without a retcon. In this case, since the mistake is your fault and you've already wrecked your game, the most graceful way out of the mess is to change anything you haven't revealed rather than trying to change things you have. The recalcitrant stance I'm taking in this thread is with respect to the OP's and others in the thread apparant desire to label this as some sort of artful DMing style that should be emulated and encouraged in others. I think it should be on a relatively high shelf and carefully labelled, "Use with caution.", and not at all part of the DM's regular tool set. I have no problem with Mr. Green taking the fall. I can keep Mrs. White as the guilty party (which she was all along). The PC's were defeated by their foe, the nefarious and cunning Mrs. White. While this wasn't the expected result, neither is it a bad result which I ought to squash purely to get the players back on my expected storyline. This gives me the oppurtunity to bring Mrs. White back as a reoccuring villain, which will ultimately mean, when the PC's and Mrs. White tangle next time, that their now delayed victory will be all that more sweet. I would look forward with great anticipation to, some number of sessions down the road, the point where the PC's realize that they were had. This would likely create one of the greatest things a DM can create - a villain worthy of the player's respect, begrudging admiration, and sincere hatred. I would feel absolutely no need to 'salvage' such a situation. But if you change the villain from Mrs. White to Mr. Green, I don't see how anything good can come out of it in this situation. [/QUOTE]

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