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Cinematic Initiative Variant (CIV)
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<blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 8140759" data-attributes="member: 6987520"><p>So, after some discussion in my thread about what the combat round feels like/represents to you, I've done a lot of thinking about initiative and what might be a good alternative.</p><p></p><p>A couple things I want to address first:</p><p>1. This is not a roll = time system. So, going on 20 or higher doesn't mean "You are acting in the first second of the round" or anything.</p><p>2. For me, being able to take all your possible actions at the same time is a problem. I prefer possible breaks in the action that don't rely solely on the narrative.</p><p>3. I am well aware this is a more complex system. It is a natural result and if you want to keep it simple (perfectly understandable) this likely won't be much interest to you.</p><p></p><p>Okay, so here we go... (first draft, so be gentle LOL! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> )</p><p></p><p><strong>Your Initiative Modifier equals your proficiency bonus + your choice of DEX, INT, or WIS modifier.</strong> (<em>Alternatively, you can choose one just for your table instead of making it player's choice). Alert adds +5 as normal. Class features also add as normal (e.g. Tactical Wit</em>). I prefer to add proficiency bonus with the idea with greater experience, your ability to exploit the opportunity to act is better, and thus more likely to come sooner.</p><p></p><p>(Side note: not required, but something I would do is reduce proficiency bonus to +0 for CR 0, and only +1 for CR 1/8, 1/4, and 1/2. CR 1 and higher would use normal proficiency bonuses.)</p><p></p><p><strong><s>Everyone rolls d20 + their Initiative Modifier. Highest roll goes first.</s></strong></p><p><strong>UPDATE: Everyone rolls d10 + 10 + their Initiative Modifier. Highest roll goes first.</strong></p><p></p><p>Now, here is where things change:</p><p></p><p><strong>When your turn comes, you take <em>one</em> action (or a single attack), bonus action, <em>OR</em> move.</strong> You resolve your action (or attack) and afterwards immediately roll a <strong>d20</strong> (update: removed bonus after first roll) <s>and add your Initiative Modifier</s>. If the result equals or exceeds your current initiative, you can take another action that you have remaining. If your new total is lower, you have to wait to take your next action. After that, you roll again and continue until you are out of actions.</p><p></p><p><strong>NOTE: reactions can be taken at any time when a trigger happens as usual. They don't require a roll.</strong></p><p></p><p>Ok, let's look at an example:</p><p></p><p>Let's say you are a 5th-level Fighter. You have Extra Attack and are fighting with two weapons, so can use your Bonus action for an attack with your second weapon. Your proficiency modifier is +3 and your DEX modifier (your highest of DEX, INT, WIS) is +2, so a total of +5 to Initiative. You encounter a lone Ogre, which has only a +1 Initiative modifier (+2 prof, -1 DEX).</p><p></p><p>[SPOILER="Round 1"]</p><p>You roll and get a 16, for a total of 21. The ogre gets a total of 14, so you act first.</p><p></p><p>You are 15 feet apart and your first action is to move to engage the Ogre on Initiative 21.</p><p>You draw your weapon as a free object interaction (as part of your movement) and have 15 feet of movement left.</p><p>You are going to attack as your next action, so roll a d20, and get an 18 for a total of 23.</p><p>Since this is higher than the current 21, you get to attack <em>now</em>.</p><p>You make an attack and hit for 10 damage.</p><p>With Extra Attack, you are going to attack again, so roll another d20, but this time get a total of 12. You will have to wait for your second attack.</p><p></p><p>Since you are already engaged with the Ogre it doesn't need to move and it attacks you on Initiative 14.</p><p>It missed!</p><p>Fearing you are more of a threat than it anticipated, the Ogre decides to flee. It rolls another d20 and gets a total of 9. It can move away on 9.</p><p></p><p>On 12, you get your second attack, but you miss (bad roll!).</p><p>You will next use your bonus action to Attack with your second weapon. You roll a d20 and get a total of 15.</p><p>Since this is higher than the current 12, you get to take your bonus action attack now.</p><p>You hit and score 7 damage!</p><p></p><p>The ogre is really worried since it missed you and you hit it twice, so on 9 it flees.</p><p>You immediately use your reaction to make an opportunity attack and score another hit for 8 damage!</p><p>The ogre then moves 40 feet away, running for its life!</p><p></p><p>Since you still have 15 feet of movement left, you give chase and close the distance to only 25 feet.</p><p></p><p>End of round 1.</p><p></p><p>Summary:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You move on 21.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You attack on 21 (roll 23) for 10 damage.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ogre attacks on 14 for a miss.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You attack on 12 for a miss.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You bonus action TWF attack on 12 (roll 15) for 7 damage.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ogre moves on 9.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You react OA on 9 for 8 damage.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You use remaining move</li> </ul><p>IMO this gives a more dynamic feel for the round instead of just you move, make your three attacks, the ogre attacks, and then you get an OA as it runs away.</p><p>[/SPOILER]</p><p></p><p>I am hoping a side-effect of this system is that since players don't take all their actions at once, they are more engaged in the round waiting for their next action.</p><p></p><p>There are still a lot of things I have to consider:</p><p></p><p>How do things like <em>Haste</em> work?</p><p>What happens if your planned action is no longer appropriate (ex. you were attacking an enemy but your target is dead and now it is your turn)?</p><p>What about readying your action or delaying an action?</p><p>And more to come I am certain...!</p><p></p><p>That's it for now. I have to run this by my groups and get feedback from them as well, playtest it some, etc. It might be too much, or it might track quickly enough that the complexity is worth it. We'll see, but the floor is open for comments, questions, concerns, and general discussion. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p><em><strong>EDIT 12/23/20:</strong> Updated OP to reflect changes after play testing.</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DND_Reborn, post: 8140759, member: 6987520"] So, after some discussion in my thread about what the combat round feels like/represents to you, I've done a lot of thinking about initiative and what might be a good alternative. A couple things I want to address first: 1. This is not a roll = time system. So, going on 20 or higher doesn't mean "You are acting in the first second of the round" or anything. 2. For me, being able to take all your possible actions at the same time is a problem. I prefer possible breaks in the action that don't rely solely on the narrative. 3. I am well aware this is a more complex system. It is a natural result and if you want to keep it simple (perfectly understandable) this likely won't be much interest to you. Okay, so here we go... (first draft, so be gentle LOL! :) ) [B]Your Initiative Modifier equals your proficiency bonus + your choice of DEX, INT, or WIS modifier.[/B] ([I]Alternatively, you can choose one just for your table instead of making it player's choice). Alert adds +5 as normal. Class features also add as normal (e.g. Tactical Wit[/I]). I prefer to add proficiency bonus with the idea with greater experience, your ability to exploit the opportunity to act is better, and thus more likely to come sooner. (Side note: not required, but something I would do is reduce proficiency bonus to +0 for CR 0, and only +1 for CR 1/8, 1/4, and 1/2. CR 1 and higher would use normal proficiency bonuses.) [B][S]Everyone rolls d20 + their Initiative Modifier. Highest roll goes first.[/S] UPDATE: Everyone rolls d10 + 10 + their Initiative Modifier. Highest roll goes first.[/B] Now, here is where things change: [B]When your turn comes, you take [I]one[/I] action (or a single attack), bonus action, [I]OR[/I] move.[/B] You resolve your action (or attack) and afterwards immediately roll a [B]d20[/B] (update: removed bonus after first roll) [S]and add your Initiative Modifier[/S]. If the result equals or exceeds your current initiative, you can take another action that you have remaining. If your new total is lower, you have to wait to take your next action. After that, you roll again and continue until you are out of actions. [B]NOTE: reactions can be taken at any time when a trigger happens as usual. They don't require a roll.[/B] Ok, let's look at an example: Let's say you are a 5th-level Fighter. You have Extra Attack and are fighting with two weapons, so can use your Bonus action for an attack with your second weapon. Your proficiency modifier is +3 and your DEX modifier (your highest of DEX, INT, WIS) is +2, so a total of +5 to Initiative. You encounter a lone Ogre, which has only a +1 Initiative modifier (+2 prof, -1 DEX). [SPOILER="Round 1"] You roll and get a 16, for a total of 21. The ogre gets a total of 14, so you act first. You are 15 feet apart and your first action is to move to engage the Ogre on Initiative 21. You draw your weapon as a free object interaction (as part of your movement) and have 15 feet of movement left. You are going to attack as your next action, so roll a d20, and get an 18 for a total of 23. Since this is higher than the current 21, you get to attack [I]now[/I]. You make an attack and hit for 10 damage. With Extra Attack, you are going to attack again, so roll another d20, but this time get a total of 12. You will have to wait for your second attack. Since you are already engaged with the Ogre it doesn't need to move and it attacks you on Initiative 14. It missed! Fearing you are more of a threat than it anticipated, the Ogre decides to flee. It rolls another d20 and gets a total of 9. It can move away on 9. On 12, you get your second attack, but you miss (bad roll!). You will next use your bonus action to Attack with your second weapon. You roll a d20 and get a total of 15. Since this is higher than the current 12, you get to take your bonus action attack now. You hit and score 7 damage! The ogre is really worried since it missed you and you hit it twice, so on 9 it flees. You immediately use your reaction to make an opportunity attack and score another hit for 8 damage! The ogre then moves 40 feet away, running for its life! Since you still have 15 feet of movement left, you give chase and close the distance to only 25 feet. End of round 1. Summary: [LIST] [*]You move on 21. [*]You attack on 21 (roll 23) for 10 damage. [*]Ogre attacks on 14 for a miss. [*]You attack on 12 for a miss. [*]You bonus action TWF attack on 12 (roll 15) for 7 damage. [*]Ogre moves on 9. [*]You react OA on 9 for 8 damage. [*]You use remaining move [/LIST] IMO this gives a more dynamic feel for the round instead of just you move, make your three attacks, the ogre attacks, and then you get an OA as it runs away. [/SPOILER] I am hoping a side-effect of this system is that since players don't take all their actions at once, they are more engaged in the round waiting for their next action. There are still a lot of things I have to consider: How do things like [I]Haste[/I] work? What happens if your planned action is no longer appropriate (ex. you were attacking an enemy but your target is dead and now it is your turn)? What about readying your action or delaying an action? And more to come I am certain...! That's it for now. I have to run this by my groups and get feedback from them as well, playtest it some, etc. It might be too much, or it might track quickly enough that the complexity is worth it. We'll see, but the floor is open for comments, questions, concerns, and general discussion. :) [I][B]EDIT 12/23/20:[/B] Updated OP to reflect changes after play testing.[/I] [/QUOTE]
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