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<blockquote data-quote="alice_of_ebony" data-source="post: 2342661" data-attributes="member: 7620">Yo Obviously some folks don't know the Incantatrix class features off by heart. Amazing <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Here's some context to my question, thanks everyone for your advice. Keep it coming <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />An Incantatrix 2 gets Cooperative Metamagic: use Spellcraft to add a metamagic feat she has to someone else's spellcasting. The DC is 18 + (3 x new lvl). A 16th level caster can't modify a spell into a 9th level spell.&nbsp; An Incantatrix 10 gets Improved Metamagic: metamagic feats cost 1 less to use [min 1] (eg Persistent costs 5 levels not 6)To add 'Persistent' [+5] to the cleric's prayer [3rd] requires a DC of 42. The max DC (for 9th level spells) is 45.spellcraft ranks:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 19Int bonus:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +9&nbsp; &nbsp; (18 +4 +6 = 28)Know(arcana) synergy&nbsp; &nbsp; +2By taking 10 this character can already (without additional bonuses, thanks Iku Rex!) make DC 40 (ie 7th level spells) no sweat. Greater heroism and a stone of good luck make that 45.So the benefit of the circlet of spellcrafting is not so much that it allows DCs of 42 (or 45) to be reached, but that it allows them to be reached reliably in combat: when you want to be chaining [+2] and empowering [+1] the cleric's divine strike [5th]; or whatever.Of course once you allow a circlet of spellcrafting you probably should also allow a headband of intellect and spellcrafting (double cost of course).Core skill bonus items are the Elven Cloak and Boots, as Hawken pointed out, but in 3.5 they grant +5 competence bonuses. They cost 2500gp. Various elixirs and robes grant +10 competence bonuses, for limited duration OR in combination with other powers.Epic stuff I'm not considering. If it's a problem later on I can always exclude epic spellcasting from the benefits.I think Hawken's argument is the best: but even halving the bonus doesn't have much impact. I think overall it's ok - at 16th level: may not have been true at 12th level.Rkhet's reference from the WotC website is to the 3.0 Incantatrix.CheersAlice</blockquote>

[QUOTE="alice_of_ebony, post: 2342661, member: 7620"] Yo Obviously some folks don't know the Incantatrix class features off by heart. Amazing ;) Here's some context to my question, thanks everyone for your advice. Keep it coming :) An [u]Incantatrix 2[/u] gets [b]Cooperative Metamagic[/b]: use Spellcraft to add a metamagic feat she has to someone else's spellcasting. The DC is 18 + (3 x new lvl). A 16th level caster can't modify a spell into a 9th level spell. An [u]Incantatrix 10[/u] gets [b]Improved Metamagic[/b]: metamagic feats cost 1 less to use [min 1] (eg Persistent costs 5 levels not 6) To add 'Persistent' [+5] to the cleric's [i]prayer[/i] [3rd] requires a DC of 42. The max DC (for 9th level spells) is 45. spellcraft ranks: 19 Int bonus: +9 (18 +4 +6 = 28) Know(arcana) synergy +2 By taking 10 this character can already (without additional bonuses, thanks Iku Rex!) make DC 40 (ie 7th level spells) no sweat. [i]Greater heroism[/i] and a [i]stone of good luck[/i] make that 45. So the benefit of the [i]circlet of spellcrafting[/i] is not so much that it allows DCs of 42 (or 45) to be reached, but that it allows them to be reached reliably in combat: when you want to be chaining [+2] and empowering [+1] the cleric's [i]divine strike[/i] [5th]; or whatever. Of course once you allow a [i]circlet of spellcrafting[/i] you probably should also allow a [i]headband of intellect and spellcrafting[/i] (double cost of course). Core skill bonus items are the [i]Elven Cloak and Boots[/i], as Hawken pointed out, but in 3.5 they grant +5 competence bonuses. They cost 2500gp. Various elixirs and robes grant +10 competence bonuses, for limited duration OR in combination with other powers. Epic stuff I'm not considering. If it's a problem later on I can always exclude epic spellcasting from the benefits. I think Hawken's argument is the best: but even halving the bonus doesn't have much impact. I think overall it's ok - at 16th level: may not have been true at 12th level. Rkhet's reference from the WotC website is to the 3.0 Incantatrix. Cheers Alice [/QUOTE]

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