City of Heroes - opinions?

[fba827]

Yes, I know, City of Heroes is a game that has been around a while now.
But, since it seems I can't seem to find a D&D group, I am looking for a backup entertainment distraction.

So I was considering CoH and had a couple quick questions for those that have experience with it:

1) It seems to have enough content to keep me entertained for at least a few months -- does it *feel* too repetitive after a while? emphasis on the word feel - I realize there is only so much that can be done but is there enough variety in the way those things are done that it doesn't _feel_ like I am doing nothing but f1 hold, tab, f2 attack. repeat for next minion. ?

2) Is there stuff for me to do alone , or is everything friend/guild/group based? Because sometimes I just like to kill stuff alone and test out skills and combos...

3) Does the control interface simple? I'm not the most coordinated person, though I can get used to things with time.

4) Is the community online seem mature enough? Or is there a general chat that is spammed with fart jokes and name calling the whole time?

5) I would be playing this on above-minumum requiremed specs but just shy of recommended computer specs, by putting down graphic settings, etc, do you think I'll be alright? or will I just be plagued by lag?

6) I know the game has been out a while, so does the community seem dieing? As in, if I log in, will I have much trouble finding other people to group with, or is the server a ghost zone half the time?

7) Any other random thoughts, good or bad, about your experience that a newbi consider it should know?

If I pick it up, I believe there is a free trial subscription so I'll obviously get to test the waters somewhat. Just trying to figure if it's even worth the time to get it, install, etc.

I may think of other questions, but that is all I had at the moment.

And, yes, I realize everyone's experiences and opinions will be different. So I'm not trying to say everyone's thoughts will be the same. Just trying to see if there are some common recurring thoughts/feelings on it.

 

[Felon]

1) City of Heroes (and, since there's no reason to have one without the other, City of Villains) should manage to keep you entertained for a few months at least. You have five hero classes and five villain classes, and within each class there's at least five primary powersets and a similar number of secondary powersets. Throw in class-independent "pool" powers and you've got a lot of character options to explore. Heck, you could spend countless hours just in the costume design interface. I have!

2) The best thing I can say about CoH is that it's the most solo-friendly MMORPG I've ever played. You can complete missions by yourself, no worries there. Of course, things go a lot faster with a good team of three or four players.

3) There's no twitch element. Hit the TAB key to select a target, and start hitting hotkeys to queue up attacks.

4) The CoH crowd is pretty mature. Personally, I attribute this to the fact that there's never been a big "loot" element in the game, because loot engenders a lot of the selfishness that we see in MMO's. In CoH, you don't have a lot of spats over farming spawns or spamming about uber weapons and armor for sale.

5) No way of knowing.

6) The community issue is a tricky thing. There are places where lots of characters hang out (although the attempt at nightclubs was a dismal failure), but I can't say I see a lot of large-scale organized team activity anymore. Maybe that's just me.

7) A few things to bear in mind:

First, there is no real interaction with the environment. No picking up cars or whomping foes with lampposts. No blasting foes through walls.

Second, the "city" theme is played out a little too literally. You spend a lot of time doing missions in abandoned warehouses, dungeon-like sewers, and drab cubicle farms--and there's not much variety to be had in any of those locales, to be honest. You don't get a lot of chances to go battle in exotic locales like alien battleships or surrealistic dimensions.

Third, the team that worked on City of Heroes is now developing Champions Online, a game which will address the aforementioned deficiencies. Keep an eye out for it sometime in the next year or so.

If you have other questions, feel free to ask.

 

[Bront]

Were you looking for superheroes? Or just any MMO?

I'm a big Guild Wars fan, but I won't derail your thread unless you ask

I know a few CoH players, I'll see if I can't direct them here.

 

[fba827]

Thanks for the feedback.

Felon: I am aware of Champions online and actually was using CoH more as an acid test to see if I might be interested in Champions when it comes out... this basically means that when it's time for my next computer upgrade, if I should keep the computer requirements for Champions in mind or not... But, yeah, I'm pretty much convinced myself I will try it out... I'm looking for a minimum couple months casual entertainment since I can't get a D&D group, so this may fit the bill nicely

Bront: Well I am looking for an MMO so that I have some people interaction (even if cyber) as opposed to single player alone type game. And I was gearing towards CoH because I wanted to see if it held my interest to make me interested in Champions Online (released end of this year I think) or not... plus, fantasy I can get my fix just by reading the D&D books but superheroes does have a different feel I'm not totally against considering other MMOs, but I do know I can't do anything _too_ current until my PC upgrade scheduled for end of this year.

Again, thanks for the feedback. If anyone else has any random goods/bads they want to add, feel free to do so.

 

[The Eternal GM]

While I dwell on the Euro servers, I have played CoH since beta (on and off, with breaks to play other MMO's) and keep coming back to it...

I've got to say that since the original creators left to go work on Marvel/Champions the game has improved immensely, and I know NCsoft are planning a new 'recruitment' attempt with a quick-start DVD at a low price shortly to help boost numbers (it's listed on Amazon or Play if I recall). But even then, I've never seen the game be quiet enough to trouble me getting teamed.

Other things I'd suggest as worthy of consideration:

#1 - Top End Content: Yeah, there basically isn't any! While WoW is ALL top end 50-70 stuff, CoX thrives from 20-50, but once you hit 50 there's only a few strike forces and special fights (admittedly, I love taking on the crashed alien mothership... But it's a rare highlight).

#2 - Hero or Villain?: Personally I find villains to be more interesting to play system-wise. The islands they play on mostly are also better laid out than the hero city is. However, it's smaller too, and all kinda gloomy where the hero city if bright.

#3 - Community: Supergroups are your road into the community. Join one, any of them, just to get help and advice. With nothing to really grind for at the top, I've always found high level players are really generous to newbies needing help, resources or the like. Far, far moreso than any other MMO. This might be different in the U.S though.

#4 - Complexity: I don't think the game is as easy to get into as WoW. The early levels are okay, but getting used to the very customizable HUD, options and such isn't all that easy. The friends I brought into the game usually took a couple of weeks to totally get the hang of everything.

#5 - Tech Specs: It'll run fine as long as you meet the minimum specs. Just don't get overambitious with the sliders on world detail and you'll be fine.

#6 - Low Levels: Frankly, they suck. Get to level 14-15 as soon as you can. Movement powers are still one of CoX's big SELLS, but you can't zoom around with superspeed, bound like a hyperactive gummy bear with superjump or fly (properly) until 14. Again, CoV is better than CoH as the maps are better and deadly zones of crims less frequent in the first couple of islands.

#7 - Repetition: Lots, yes, 'fraid so. The interesting levels and foes don't crop up early on really... So it is warehouses and gangs initially. There are some wonderful zones, missions, bosses and such... Just sometimes they seem too rare.

#8 - Mayhem Missions: So as to not end on a down note about my favourite MMO, I'll mention the mayhem missions (and whatever the less fun hero versions are) where you get a bunch of villains together and go rob one of the big banks in the hero's city. It's pretty crazy fun as you can destroy all cars, dumpsters, hydrants as you go, racing the clock to wreck the place, steal the loot and beat the heroes sent to stop you. The heroe's get it the other way around (safeguard missions?) but that's just not as fun.

Hope that helps.

 

[Shayuri]

I'd like to toss in a couple of things.

Eternal GM's assessment is pretty good, though I will say that I really like Safeguard missions. Basically, you stop a bank robbery in progress, then take on bands of villains on a time limit. If you take out the right bosses, you get clues to other major heists going on, thwarting them gives you bonus time. You can, in theory, chain together a lot of events from a single mission, if you act fast enough! There's no penalty for missing stuff...you just don't get as much exp for defeating the villains.

One great thing about Safeguard missions, and that REALLY helps the early levels, is that you get a temp power from saving the bank. This is most commonly either a jet pack or a gravity defying "jump pack." They simulate the high end travel powers, and last for plenty long enough to get to level 14 yourself. The only diff between them and ordinary travel powers is that you can get them quite early (depending on when you take your Safeguard missions...they scale to whatever level you are), and you can't enhance them with anything.

In practice, this makes the early levels so much less tedious, and really helps the game along.

 

[Dire Lemming]

I got in on this game at launch and it was pretty good. I'm not sure how it is now since like all action-MMORPGs I've gotten bored with it regularly and stopped playing for a while. I got City of Villains a while after it came out and started playing again for a while. It can be tons and tons of fun though. Especially now with ragdoll animations when you beat enemies. The character classes are allot more fun than WoW. Especially the Mastermind class for villains who uses minions to do their dirty work and concentrates their powers on support and and summoning. The animations are very nice too. They're always adding new features, like they didn't have Safeguard missions when I last played for instance. If you can afford an MMORPG and don't like the deep stuff like EVE or how UO and SWG used to be then CoH/V is quite good. You can even build HQs if you have a super hero/vallain group.

Isn't Champions going to be a console game?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

1) It seems to have enough content to keep me entertained for at least a few months -- does it *feel* too repetitive after a while? emphasis on the word feel - I realize there is only so much that can be done but is there enough variety in the way those things are done that it doesn't _feel_ like I am doing nothing but f1 hold, tab, f2 attack. repeat for next minion. ?

Yes. To me, it's about as thin as a below-average console game. This would be fine if there wasn't a subscription fee, but there is. (And all the folks who are going to jump on me about all the wonderful content patches: They're still thin as can be. More of the same, in new zones.)

2) Is there stuff for me to do alone , or is everything friend/guild/group based? Because sometimes I just like to kill stuff alone and test out skills and combos...

It's a very soloable game, much of the time.

3) Does the control interface simple? I'm not the most coordinated person, though I can get used to things with time.

It's not bad at all. Easier than most MMOs, a little harder than some of the newest ones.

4) Is the community online seem mature enough? Or is there a general chat that is spammed with fart jokes and name calling the whole time?

Turn off channels, IMO. I find them painful. Also expect to get spammed with invites to join supergroups (guilds) and teams (groups) all the time.

5) I would be playing this on above-minumum requiremed specs but just shy of recommended computer specs, by putting down graphic settings, etc, do you think I'll be alright? or will I just be plagued by lag?

You'll be fine.

6) I know the game has been out a while, so does the community seem dieing? As in, if I log in, will I have much trouble finding other people to group with, or is the server a ghost zone half the time?

Not dying, necessarily, but stagnant at best. It's telling that they've never added a single new server after the first week CoH (not even CoV) was released. And they periodically have "come back and play for free" grovel weekends to get people back again. (The latest was Memorial Day weekend.)

7) Any other random thoughts, good or bad, about your experience that a newbi consider it should know?

You'll probably only want one flying character. It's cool as hell the first time, especially once you get beyond Hover to REAL flying, but after that, pretty much every other movement power is superior.

I think CoX will be remembered as the superhero game that came right before the really awesome superhero game. This one, for whatever reason, is wedded to a lot of EQ1-isms (there are superheroes that heal, superheroes whose powers are concerned with locking down enemies, and hit points are a big part of a game, despite being very out of genre) and, despite the protestations of the creators, they don't really come off like superhero fans, having chosen not to have most superhero comics tropes represented in the game, but rather just sticking a several years old version of EQ1 in Spandex.

That said, it's the best superhero MMO around today and it certainly does get a few things very right, such as the visceral thrill of a striker/stalker type (think Batman) jumping down out of the rafters into a warehouse full of thugs and laying down some major smack. If that's the kind of stuff you love in comics, CoX will keep you happy for at least a while.

I honestly love superhero comics more than I do fantasy stuff, but CoX has been unable to retain my attention compared to how long I played EQ1 or, now, WoW, both of which are vastly better at modeling their chosen genres and both of which have tons more depth.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Yes. To me, it's about as thin as a below-average console game. This would be fine if there wasn't a subscription fee, but there is. (And all the folks who are going to jump on me about all the wonderful content patches: They're still thin as can be. More of the same, in new zones.)

Actually, I rather LIKE the relative "thinness" of COH. But then I don't play MMO's to zip up to the max level and then spend my online time doing the same raids over and over and over. For example, I've tried repeatedly to get into WoW but all the complexity and subtlety needed to substantially develop characters beyond, say, 20th level is lost on me. But that's ME. I don't expect everyone to be like me.

It's a very soloable game, much of the time.

Very. But I find it's much more fun with just pick-up groups running a few missions.

Turn off channels, IMO. I find them painful. Also expect to get spammed with invites to join supergroups (guilds) and teams (groups) all the time.

Well as mentioned the players are relatively mature. There isn't a lot you can do to grief other players. The most recent content update also made it easier than ever to ignore and report obnoxious chat and spammers - and IME offenders are rapidly removed. Most chat that you're going to pay attention to will be Local and particularly your Team channel. Even when servers are busy I find chat in COH much easier to deal with than in WoW. In that regard it helps that there ARE greatly fewer people on a given server in COH.

Supergroup and team invites can be set to be ignored which ends that problem entirely, but IME they are NOT frequent enough to be an irritation. Most supergroup recruiters are smart and courteous enough to simply send a message to the Broadcast channel every few minutes. If they spam Broadcast too frequently they WILL be shouted down by everyone in short order if not reported. Either way it's an infrequent problem that rapidly gets solved.

There is also a "Search" feature listing every player character currently in a zone/server to aid in assembling groups and you can set your characters desired type of teaming (any mission, task forces, NONE, etc) as well as add a short bit of text that is frequently used to state that you prefer to be ASKED before being invited to team. IME this further reduces what might otherwise be constant, random invites.

Different servers DO have slightly different communities. The two most heavily populated servers IME tend to have slightly more problems with player behavior.

My own perception is that the server population levels are fairly steady at this point (though I stick to just one for various reasons). The number of people playing goes up whenever a new issue comes out and then drops back down over week or two to the same base levels. Prior to max levels, if you are willing to LEAD a team - put it together and then recruit new people as others leave - you'll do better than if you plan to just sit around waiting for an invitation. I couldn't really tell you about the late/end game as I get enough enjoyment out of characters in the 1-30 (out of 50) level range. My impression is that at 50 you'll either start a new character or be playing silly buggers with your supergroup (assuming that you have joined one the very few top groups as the vast bulk of supergroups have WAY too few active toons.)

I think CoX will be remembered as the superhero game that came right before the really awesome superhero game.

Well as enjoyable as I personally find it, I also think they ARE missing a LOT of tricks. Personally I think they really ought to consider a COH-2 but that brings up questions about profitability in trying to draw off members from the existing game (especially since management and update of the game has been sold off - and I think the forthcoming Champions MMORPG has the potential to kill it in any case depending on its execution.)

I honestly love superhero comics more than I do fantasy stuff, but CoX has been unable to retain my attention compared to how long I played EQ1 or, now, WoW, both of which are vastly better at modeling their chosen genres and both of which have tons more depth.

On the other hand, for me COH has been the one MMORPG I've played the longest and to the greatest depth (albeit still not to its fullest potential, so to speak) and I love fantasy stuff MUCH more than superheroes.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Actually, I rather LIKE the relative "thinness" of COH. But then I don't play MMO's to zip up to the max level and then spend my online time doing the same raids over and over and over.

Lucky you, you get to experience that almost immediately in CoX.

 

[fba827]

First off thanks for all the input everyone.

I just installed CoX and am using the trial time to see how I like it. I haven't had a chance to do much of anything in it other than try the character creation and take maybe all of ten steps in the tutorial.

I can tell I'll probably make a bunch of different character types, run them each through the tutorial, to get a feel for class types and powers that I prefer, etc. And then pick one or two that I like the best and advance them out of the tutorial, for at least as long as the trial version. I'll make a decision to stay or go then...

Isn't Champions going to be a console game?

Champions is planning to be multiplatform (PC and Xbox 360) AND cross-platform. Cross-platform meaning that when you select which server to play on, you can choose a server exclusive to your platform or choose a server that houses both platforms' players -- thus, you can play with more people/friends.

 

[Felon]

I honestly love superhero comics more than I do fantasy stuff, but CoX has been unable to retain my attention compared to how long I played EQ1 or, now, WoW, both of which are vastly better at modeling their chosen genres and both of which have tons more depth.

I'm interested in hearing what constitutes "tons more depth".

I played WoW in its first year with a rogue and warlock. Mostly tried soloing, since everyone I could group with was in a mad rush to grind their way to max level (back when such a thing wasn't taken for granted like it is today). I remember staying in one area, grinding one mob at a time, praying I never aggroed an add, and then moving to another area once I outleveled it. It was mostly kill X amount creature Y.

I remember fun diversions like swimming under water to open shells and grabbing some eggs from griffins (or manticores or wyverns or something). But I don't recall tons of depth. I think I quit after about the three-month mark with characters in their low forties--about the time I got a steed, the game sort of lost some of its magic because I could just dash from one place to the next.

I'd be pretty interested to hear if WoW's gotten deeper than that.

 

[Felon]

I can tell I'll probably make a bunch of different character types, run them each through the tutorial, to get a feel for class types and powers that I prefer, etc. And then pick one or two that I like the best and advance them out of the tutorial, for at least as long as the trial version. I'll make a decision to stay or go then...

That's a pretty method for playing City of Heroes.

Two things to be wary of. First, good names are hard to come by, because there's an aversion to freeing up names taken by defunct accounts.

Second, there are people who apparently have nothing better to than go around acting as "name police", summarily stripping your characters of their names and replacing them with a "generic" label. This might happen because your character is too similar to that of a published character, or because your name otherwise violates their naming code, which has some pretty bizarre restrictions (like prohibiting names that refer to any part of the body). You won't be told why exactly, it'll just happen without warning. I had illusionist called "Mr. Trick" that was genericized thusly. I think that was actually my last straw.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'm interested in hearing what constitutes "tons more depth".

Well, for starters, in addition to the PvE game, which is still 99 percent of CoX, WoW has a lot more choices for PvP, and set up in a consensual fashion on PvE servers, but it's always more available than it is in CoX. (And unlike CoX, despite the grand tradition of superheroes beating the crap out of each other, you can actually duel.)

I played WoW in its first year with a rogue and warlock. Mostly tried soloing, since everyone I could group with was in a mad rush to grind their way to max level (back when such a thing wasn't taken for granted like it is today). I remember staying in one area, grinding one mob at a time, praying I never aggroed an add, and then moving to another area once I outleveled it. It was mostly kill X amount creature Y.

That's a very strange way to play WoW, especially given how robust warlocks are.

First off, WoW isn't meant to be "ground out" by killing monsters, it's meant to be played via quest lines. While there are a fair number of Kill X of Y, there are also lots of other sorts of quests, like operating a series of cannons to stop a rampaging sea monster from destroying Theramore, ferrying love notes between lovers in feuding families, disguising yourself and infiltrating various enemy encampments to gather information or flying bombing runs over enemy installations.

CoX has pretty good holidays, but WoW has more of them -- there are some periods of the year where practically every day has something going on -- and many of them are more impressive. The most recently added, Brewfest, features ram races to deliver kegs of beer, races to advertise a local brewery and rewards that include beer goggles that make everyone look like a sexy male gnome. Even older holidays, like Hallow's End, are getting revamped, and now characters have to stop the Headless Horseman from burning down various low level towns during the holidays, while higher level characters can fight him in the graveyard of the Scarlet Monastery.

If you mostly soloed, you missed out on the incredibly well-done single group dungeons, almost all of which feature scripted events and complex boss fights previously only saved for 72-man raiding bosses in EQ1. You can chase a mischievous imp through the ruins of Dire Maul or reenact the Tanis segments of Raiders of the Lost Ark in Ulduman, go back in time and make sure Thrall escapes from his slavers or even ensure that Medivh is able to open the Dark Portal and allow the Burning Legion to invade Azeroth.

Raids are getting smaller and smaller, and in Northrend, all raids will feature 10-man versions. In Outland, 10-man and even many 25-man raids are successfully run as pick-up groups, and allow more and more folks to see some incredibly creative and complex encounters (as well as some silly ones, like playing a game of chess against an echo of Medivh in his tower -- and he cheats).

Even tradeskills are more robust than CoX, especially with new daily quests for several professions, like fishing quests that can take you from the canals of Stormwind to fishing in the toxic sludge of the Hellfire Peninsula. Engineers can build and fly their own gyrocopters while jewelcrafters can turn the gems they mine into figurine of wondrous power-style pets.

I remember fun diversions like swimming under water to open shells and grabbing some eggs from griffins (or manticores or wyverns or something). But I don't recall tons of depth. I think I quit after about the three-month mark with characters in their low forties--about the time I got a steed, the game sort of lost some of its magic because I could just dash from one place to the next.

Faster forms of movement are now integrated into a lot of the content. There are quest areas you can't unlock in Outland until you can fly, like freeing dragons from slavery or becoming the hero of an enlightened enclave of ogres (living in, of course, the community of Ogri'la). As part of an ongoing war with the worshipers of the avatar of an evil raven god, you can fly bombing runs to stop the eggs located all over an avian community from giving birth to mutated raptors.

In contrast, CoX features a whole lot of going into ships docked in the harbor, punching your way through the thugs and freeing the guy at the far end. There are a few other types of missions, but not many more. And endless randomly generated dungeons start to look the same pretty fast. Ironically, that's meant to be a way to generate more content than is available in games like WoW, but in practice, the hand-made WoW dungeons feel far more diverse, despite being, by some measures, fewer in number.