City question

[justinsluder]

I'm working on a city that is over 3,000 years old, and the largest city on my world. Would it be reasonable to say that it could resemble Rome in its day? And, I don't mean architecture, just size and population.

Thanks,

Justin Sluder

 

[Avarice]

That depends. Why would your city be so large? Rome was at the center of an empire with tens of millions of citizens. It was able to provide aqequate supplies of water to its million plus city dwellers through a system of aqueducts and brought in enough food because it controlled some of the most prime agricultural real-estate in the world (Egypt). It had public baths and houses with indoor heating. Oh, and the Coliseum. What advantages does your city enjoy that would make people want to live there?

 

[The Dungeon Nazi]

Well, in its day, Rome was not 3,000 years old, so if your city managed to survive and thrive over all that time, and is still prospering after all that time, then it would probably be a lot bigger. The Rome of today supports a population of maybe 2.5 million people. The original village was founded at around 800 BC, so you could say that the city is now reaching towards that 3,000-year mark.

Anyway, Rome's prosperity was achieved because of a lot of good luck and chance events in the favor of the city -- she was *really* lucky to wind up with the status she would eventually see. So if you rewound time and let the course of the world happen again, you probably wouldn't get the Rome we have today.

I don't know if this helps any. Is there something more specific that might be of use?

Oh! One or two more things.

Rome's population was surprisingly small for two reasons.

First, because of their aggressive nature, they were constantly expanding, conquering and expanding again, and the death toll from the constant warfare, combined with the fact that they'd seed newly-conquered territory with Roman citizens, resulted in a much smaller population of citizens who actually lived within the boundaries of the city proper. Furthermore, second- and third-born (and so on..) sons who had no claim to their father's estate could volunteer for military service and would then be stationed all over the empire.

Secondly, in a deliberate move to control the city's permanent population, citizens could volunteer for Rome's near-constant stream of colonization projects, where they would be given land and would be allowed to make a name and a living for themselves by founding an outpost city hundreds of miles away from the main body of Rome.

 

[Rahkan]

I would say no

First of all I don't think size has much to do with age. Size has more to do with how large an area is 'served' by your city. Rome was THE center of the Roman empire. Anyone who was anyone, anyone who wanted any say in governance, had to live in Rome and all of those people needed other people to serve them (shine their boots, clean their houses and whatnot). And of course having all those people in one place necessarily entails that there must be a huge area that is devoted to feeding this large non-food-producing populace. That being said I would think your city would be much larger than Rome.

The reason is magic. Magical items never go away. Whereas the Roman emperors built grand structures (like the Colosseum and Aquaducts) the emperors of your city would have built huge and powerful magical items. Not only would they build floating palaces but they would create huge portals to the plane of water to provide water for your city and a stone that summons food or whatnot. As more time passed more and more of these big (immovable) magic thingies would be created. This would mean that the population would continue to grow because the main reason for living there (the magical amenities) would never go away. Furthermore it wouldn't matter if the empire that supported your city declined because the people could be fed by magic. Also in most campaigns there was actually more magic in the past than in the present. Thus people might be attracted all the old magical crap (that they can't make anymore) which is still in your city.

 

[justinsluder]

Yes, this city is the capital of an empire. The empire is 2,836 years old.

Rahkan, EXACTLY!!! There is at least one guild for each different school of magic, with well over 1,000 members each. I like the idea of the portal to the plane of Water. City wide, pre-planned type stuff. Like they do in some of today's cities.

Obviously, I can't truly finish this city until the ELH comes out because of it's size.

Thanks again,

Justin Sluder

 

[The Dungeon Nazi]

City wide, pre-planned type stuff. Like they do in some of today's cities.

I'll shut up in a minute, I swear.

While all those colonies were ridiculously-organized and planned out for maximum efficiency, Rome itself -- because of its history and just because of how it grew and evolved over the many centuries that it thrived as the seat of a huge empire -- was a mish-mash hodgepodge patchwork at best. Like that house that rich old widow whose husband owned a huge gun manufacturer before he died (Remington, maybe?), who went nuts just adding on stuff to her house because the voices told her to -- stairs that don't lead anywhere, doors that open to nothing two or three floors up. During the most opulent eras of the high empire, things were just built for the sake of being built, but there was no real modern-day-type city planning going on for Rome itself. Whenever an emperor decided the city wanted or needed a structure, it'd be built wherever there was room.

Although I suppose that in a high-magic campaign, you could say that 2,800 years later, an epic-level psion with the Tuning feat could just rearrange everything nice and orderly and throw in Shell Beach free of charge.

 

[Rahkan]

Hehe

With all those necromancers there must be a whole hell of a lot of undead servants running around. I wonder if people sell their bodies after death, to be raised. I wonder if the undead count in the population tally. Considering the sheer number of undead any wizard can raise then there could conceivably be more undead than people. I wonder if they count in the population tally?

 

[The Dungeon Nazi]

Re: Hehe

With all those necromancers there must be a whole hell of a lot of undead servants running around. I wonder if people sell their bodies after death, to be raised.

OMG! Planescape: Torment! That is *still* such a kickass game!

 

[DM_Matt]

Re: Hehe

You ought to download all the Netheril (FR Arcane Age 2e) material from WoTC...Its free.

Its about a high-magic society with magic integrated into cities and everyday life. IIRC it even has city maps, etc.

You can probably use a lot of that.

 

[Kichwas]

Obviously, I can't truly finish this city until the ELH comes out because of it's size.

¿Que?