City State of the Invincible Overlord - Old School Revisited

[Melkor]

Ok folks,

Long story short, as some of you may have noticed from other posts, I've been on an 'old school' kick lately. It started with house ruling Castles & Crusades to run Castle Zagyg when it comes out, that lead to perusal and purchase of The Wurst of Grimtooth's Traps.

I started looking at the Necromancer Judge's Guild stuff today at my FLGS and decided to impulse buy the City State of the Invincible Overlord, Caves of Thracia, and Player's Guide to the Wilderlands. They just looked good.

Now that I've got them, I'm back at work and can't really read through them until I get home tonight. That said, I wanted to ask you folks a few questions regarding the Wilderlands setting.

I cut my gaming teeth in Greyhawk, and always considered the old folio and boxed set to be "Old School". I never played any of the Judges Guild stuff, but figured that with D20 and the revisions of the Judges Guild stuff, it would be a way for me to experience 'old school' but with a new perspective.

In reading some of the comments about the Necromancer JG stuff, I've noticed that people say it's somewhat different than your classic 'feudal' type of Greyhawk setting, so I wanted to ask:

What is so different about the Wilderlands compared to settings like Greyhawk ?

Do all of the 'standard fare' D&D races and monsters inhabit the Wilderlands ?

What makes The Wilderlands feel 'old-school' to you ?

Thanks.

 

[Turjan]

What is so different about the Wilderlands compared to settings like Greyhawk ?

Do all of the 'standard fare' D&D races and monsters inhabit the Wilderlands ?

What makes The Wilderlands feel 'old-school' to you ?

Well, just look at the name "City State of the Invincible Overlord". The setting has some definite pulp influences. The rulers of Viridistan. Amazons as slightly overpowered base race. Gods jumbled together from real world sources and inventions. The 'Wilderlands' remind me a bit more of Conan than of Greyhawk. And it's a wide open space, where the players are not supposed to know where everything is. I quite like it.

 

[rogueattorney]

Much of it is the setting.

CSIO/Wilderlands is more of a Conan-esque ancient "in the dimly remembered past of humanity" type setting. GH is more of a 13th century European setting. A much greater extent of GH is settled, with the wilderness pushed to the borderlands between states. The Wilderlands are just that, with a few beacons of civilization here and there among the scattered City States.

All the standard fare D&D races exist, although it is pretty-well human dominated (not unlike Greyhawk in that respect).

What makes it old-school? First my definition. With regard to campaign settings, everything TSR did beginning with Dragonlance and later is not old-school. Old school is Blackmoor, Tekumel, Greyhawk, pre-Gazetteer Known World, Harn, Arduin, etc. So, other than time period, what makes the Wilderlands old-school?

It's dark. Good is definitely not ascendant, if even a real force in the world. Barbarism is the norm. The Gods are weak, petty, and vulnerable. The ancient human empires are gone, with nothing left to do but loot their remains. The heroes can make a great difference in the world, but will probably die trying.

R.A.

 

[Melkor]

Thanks for the info....

One thing I did notice while flipping through City State at the store was mention of "Knights".

Are there any organized Kingdoms in the Wilderlands (other than the City State) ?

 

[jasper]

tarnatis sp
world emperor
Are two other cities which had books made.
I think there are others mentioned but I only had the 3 city books and one of sector maps.

 

[Melan]

rogueattorney saved me quite a bit of typing. Thanks!

Melkor: there is only one regular, well organized empire in the Wilderlands, and that is the crumbling empire of Viridistan, clinging to its riches even in its ragged state, and awaiting the Inevitable when the last emperor of pure blood dies... The City State of the Invincible Overlord has numerous vassals, apparently, but it is essentially a big and very influential City State. Tarantis could probably be more organized, but its powers are more marient than land-based. The rest of the city states are just that.

One good way to think of the Wilderlands is to think of the Ancient Mediterranean, with a bit more advanced technology (including some well hidden ultra-tech like laser rifles and atomic bombs). Think of R.E. Howard, Leiber, Vance and Merritt instead of Leiber. Think of several modular mini-adventures instead of expansive story arcs. Think of "exploring the wilderness" - not because it is your mission to, but because your PCs lust for that exploration. Those sort of things.

 

[BWP]

What makes it old-school? First my definition. With regard to campaign settings, everything TSR did beginning with Dragonlance and later is not old-school. Old school is Blackmoor, Tekumel, Greyhawk, pre-Gazetteer Known World, Harn, Arduin, etc.

Hârn as "old school"? :\

I think Hârn's emphasis on socio-economics and politics, and de-emphasis of monster-slaying and loot-grabbing, make it very decidedly not "old school" ( and I suspect that was exactly the intent of the designers). (And of course it was never a TSR product ... nor was Arduin, for that matter.)

 

[Rl'Halsinor]

My brother ran his campaign in the Wilderlands and the feel I and others always got was pockets of civilization, particularly the City-States and to a lesser degree the towns and vllages, surrounded by great expanses of wilderness -- a wilderness fraught with the unknown, darkness, intrigue. I love both Greyhawk and the Wilderlands. Played extensively in both and truly enjoyed what each brought to my gaming experience.

The standard fare of D&D races and monsters easily fit here and due to the fact that there are massive areas of land and sea that aren't civilized, heck not even explored, the DM is given great leeway to tweak, modify and create any way he/she sees fit. The Wilderlands is truly a fun place to campaign.

By the way, I was over at the Necromancer boards and they say that the Wilderlands Box Set will have a very limited run and it is important to reserve your copy.

 

[Melan]

And of course it was never a TSR product ... nor was Arduin, for that matter.

And nor was City State or the Wilderlands.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I think what makes the Wilderlands "old school" is that it was created so early on in the history of RPGs that it doesn't have any influences from what are now very familiar RPG campaign setting tropes. The tropes it uses are familiar from fantasy and scifi, but are combined in such a...I guess haphazard is the word to use, though I don't mean it in a negative sense...way that they evoke an unfamiliar feel within the setting.

It also seems to have been designed more for gaming fun than for coherent world creation. This isn't bad - it essentially gives each DM (or Judge, in Judges Guild parlance) the opportunity to impose as much or as little structure upon the setting as he or she may wish. I think this is what was the strength of the early D&D modules - they were skeletons upon which each game group could hang whatever flesh was desired. The newer versions of the CSIO and Wilderlands are fleshed out a bit more than their earlier incarnations, but not to the point that it would impede a lot of individual customization.