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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 8124607" data-attributes="member: 20564">I need to point out that this misses the most important part of this - value by action economy.Let me put forth two parts.1.&nbsp; A pure at-will character like a rogue or EB-only warlock has the same expected damage across a large number of rounds.&nbsp; There may be minor variations, but it's generally static.2.&nbsp; A pure caster using high level slots has a higher expected output (not always damage, but it's the easiest to put on a spreadsheet) than using cantrips.&nbsp; When you average their high output and low output, you get an output near the at-will characters.The balance point between these two types of classes can not be met if the pure caster significantly raises their average output PER ROUND by reducing (or removing) the need for them to use cantrips.What this means, is that the total rounds for all the encounters a important part for this balance.So, a single encounter day needs an encounter that will last the same number of rounds as the 4, 6, 8 or whatever number of encounters.But even there, a 1 minute effect is again more efficient in terms of action economy and resource usage if it is needed for the whole minute, vs. only 3-4 rounds.&nbsp; So that even if a single encounter lasted the number of rounds that 6-8 encounters would last, there are still advantages towards the long rest recovery model classes.&nbsp; An easy way to see this - a barbarian with 3 rages could be raging an entire 20 round encounter, but would be raging aonly half the time in six encounters only lasting 3-4 rounds.This is one of the most important points in inter-class recovery model balance - the amount of time that the long rest recovery classes will not have access to their features and spells.&nbsp;&nbsp; Because they outperform the at-will classes while they have them and must spend part of the adventuring day without them to lower their average down to where the at-will classes are.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Blue, post: 8124607, member: 20564"] I need to point out that this misses the most important part of this - value by action economy. Let me put forth two parts. 1. A pure at-will character like a rogue or EB-only warlock has the same expected damage across a large number of rounds. There may be minor variations, but it's generally static. 2. A pure caster using high level slots has a higher expected output (not always damage, but it's the easiest to put on a spreadsheet) than using cantrips. When you average their high output and low output, you get an output near the at-will characters. The balance point between these two types of classes[B][I] [B]can not[/B][/I] [/B]be met if the pure caster significantly raises their average output PER ROUND by reducing (or removing) the need for them to use cantrips. What this means, is that the total rounds for all the encounters a important part for this balance. So, a single encounter day needs an encounter that will last the same number of rounds as the 4, 6, 8 or whatever number of encounters. But even there, a 1 minute effect is again more efficient in terms of action economy and resource usage if it is needed for the whole minute, vs. only 3-4 rounds. So that even if a single encounter lasted the number of rounds that 6-8 encounters would last, there are still advantages towards the long rest recovery model classes. An easy way to see this - a barbarian with 3 rages could be raging an entire 20 round encounter, but would be raging aonly half the time in six encounters only lasting 3-4 rounds. This is one of the most important points in inter-class recovery model balance - the amount of time that the long rest recovery classes will [B]not[/B] have access to their features and spells. Because they outperform the at-will classes while they have them and must spend part of the adventuring day without them to lower their average down to where the at-will classes are. [/QUOTE]

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