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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Class Acts: Sorcerer - "The Shivs of Sorcery"
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<blockquote data-quote="rangda" data-source="post: 5287671" data-attributes="member: 86125"><p>Brutal 1, admittedly is nice, but high crit is much less so with a d6 based weapon. Superior Implement would give you 1d10 high crit instead which is significantly more damage when you start looking at paragon/epic.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't necessarily want to get into the discussion of "this power is better than that power" but close/melee vs. ranged/area isn't better or worse, it's different. You're thinking it's better because you want to get stuck in, for a build that wants to work at range it's horrible because it has to get far too close to the monsters. Sorc. as a class tends towards ranged because pumping AC is hard, so making it melee while potentially interesting is against the grain.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>2WF line works with implement powers, WF works with dagger implement powers (and even if it didn't there is a corresponding feat). Just as you get excited at piling on the melee feats there are a set of damage feats which are implement based that you lose. I'm to lazy to sit down and do a hard analysis, but I suspect you're slightly worse on the melee path than the implement path with a sorc.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>These powers, from an absolute power perspective, are the creme of the crop in the article. The potential for a MBA is nice and opens up some build options even if you don't use the rest of the article. And the ability to get an attack as a minor cannot be underestimated, even if it's single target.</p><p></p><p>I think one of the other posters hit it in that these powers really start to flesh out a new sorc. build (less powerful than the ranged build IMO and I'll get to why in a bit). There's not quite enough here but it's a start. The problem is that it's cool for making a new build but not so cool for grafting onto most existing sorcerers (excepting dragonborn dragon magic types).</p><p></p><p>IMO the power of the sorcerer is in the static damage bonus. The sorcerer is the only striker in the game that can apply it's striker dice to multiple targets and multiple attacks / round (this breaks some powers btw, such as the pre-nerfed Increase the Tempo). So the road for minimaxing a sorcerer is multi-target spells; you want every cookie in the game that adds to your damage bonus and you want to hit as many targets / round as possible to maximize the amount of damage you're handing out. If you go down the single target road, the barbarians and ranges of the world will always out-damage you (they are working on d12 high crit for their [w] and your stuck on smaller dice and often smaller numbers of them). Thus I take a dim view of any single target sorcerer powers unless you get a good cookie to go along with it (like, say, attack as a minor).</p><p></p><p>I think the reaction you'll get from this article depends greatly on the baggage the person reading it carried in. If someone was looking for cool new toys for their existing char, they will be disappointed. If someone was looking for new ways to minimax their char and crank up the absurd DPR numbers they will be disappointed. If someone was looking for a way to try to build a hybrid sorc/barb or somesuch they will think it's great.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="rangda, post: 5287671, member: 86125"] Brutal 1, admittedly is nice, but high crit is much less so with a d6 based weapon. Superior Implement would give you 1d10 high crit instead which is significantly more damage when you start looking at paragon/epic. I don't necessarily want to get into the discussion of "this power is better than that power" but close/melee vs. ranged/area isn't better or worse, it's different. You're thinking it's better because you want to get stuck in, for a build that wants to work at range it's horrible because it has to get far too close to the monsters. Sorc. as a class tends towards ranged because pumping AC is hard, so making it melee while potentially interesting is against the grain. 2WF line works with implement powers, WF works with dagger implement powers (and even if it didn't there is a corresponding feat). Just as you get excited at piling on the melee feats there are a set of damage feats which are implement based that you lose. I'm to lazy to sit down and do a hard analysis, but I suspect you're slightly worse on the melee path than the implement path with a sorc. These powers, from an absolute power perspective, are the creme of the crop in the article. The potential for a MBA is nice and opens up some build options even if you don't use the rest of the article. And the ability to get an attack as a minor cannot be underestimated, even if it's single target. I think one of the other posters hit it in that these powers really start to flesh out a new sorc. build (less powerful than the ranged build IMO and I'll get to why in a bit). There's not quite enough here but it's a start. The problem is that it's cool for making a new build but not so cool for grafting onto most existing sorcerers (excepting dragonborn dragon magic types). IMO the power of the sorcerer is in the static damage bonus. The sorcerer is the only striker in the game that can apply it's striker dice to multiple targets and multiple attacks / round (this breaks some powers btw, such as the pre-nerfed Increase the Tempo). So the road for minimaxing a sorcerer is multi-target spells; you want every cookie in the game that adds to your damage bonus and you want to hit as many targets / round as possible to maximize the amount of damage you're handing out. If you go down the single target road, the barbarians and ranges of the world will always out-damage you (they are working on d12 high crit for their [w] and your stuck on smaller dice and often smaller numbers of them). Thus I take a dim view of any single target sorcerer powers unless you get a good cookie to go along with it (like, say, attack as a minor). I think the reaction you'll get from this article depends greatly on the baggage the person reading it carried in. If someone was looking for cool new toys for their existing char, they will be disappointed. If someone was looking for new ways to minimax their char and crank up the absurd DPR numbers they will be disappointed. If someone was looking for a way to try to build a hybrid sorc/barb or somesuch they will think it's great. [/QUOTE]
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Class Acts: Sorcerer - "The Shivs of Sorcery"
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