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<blockquote data-quote="Cybit" data-source="post: 6361860" data-attributes="member: 66111">1) True; but I do think a reasonably balanced game through L17 shouldn't be completely disregarded because of a spell level that most people won't get.&nbsp; Also, I think the MM will allay some fears in this regard; last I saw, it seems that higher level monsters are better designed to deal with spellcasters and the typical I-Win buttons that casters generally have.&nbsp; 2) Concentration is probably the single biggest balancing mechanic for spellcasters.&nbsp; While I understand why it is not easily applicable in an analysis such as this one (the amount of assumptions you would need to make would become far more numerous and complex), I'm not sure the downsides of casters are really visible without concentration being looked at.&nbsp; 3) I'd also say that since Utility is an aspect of analysis (and it would be pretty unfair to a bard to not consider their utility), the Fighter_Champion is probably the single worst martial class to compare to a bard, by virtue that it has no utility, and is designed to be simple and effective, which I feel it is even at high levels.&nbsp; When utility is brought into the equation; I do wonder whether a Monk or Barbarian would come across as better.&nbsp; Also, using a point buy system, the fighter can probably rock two 16s to begin with, as they are only really dependent on two stats (STR/CON), while as a Bard needs three (CHA/DEX/CON).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cybit, post: 6361860, member: 66111"] 1) True; but I do think a reasonably balanced game through L17 shouldn't be completely disregarded because of a spell level that most people won't get. Also, I think the MM will allay some fears in this regard; last I saw, it seems that higher level monsters are better designed to deal with spellcasters and the typical I-Win buttons that casters generally have. 2) Concentration is probably the single biggest balancing mechanic for spellcasters. While I understand why it is not easily applicable in an analysis such as this one (the amount of assumptions you would need to make would become far more numerous and complex), I'm not sure the downsides of casters are really visible without concentration being looked at. 3) I'd also say that since Utility is an aspect of analysis (and it would be pretty unfair to a bard to not consider their utility), the Fighter_Champion is probably the single worst martial class to compare to a bard, by virtue that it has no utility, and is designed to be simple and effective, which I feel it is even at high levels. When utility is brought into the equation; I do wonder whether a Monk or Barbarian would come across as better. Also, using a point buy system, the fighter can probably rock two 16s to begin with, as they are only really dependent on two stats (STR/CON), while as a Bard needs three (CHA/DEX/CON). [/QUOTE]

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