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<blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 6362530" data-attributes="member: 15700">I'm going to be honest with you.&nbsp; After your previous post and this part below?&nbsp; I stopped reading.&nbsp; Because it seems clear to me that you are being either deliberately obtuse, or you're just not able to grasp what I'm saying.&nbsp; I'll explain why with just this first partI am NOT moving the goal posts.&nbsp; Cue a pic of Vizzini from Princess Bride.&nbsp; I have been consistent the entire time about casters might not have access to the spell to begin with.&nbsp; Because they might not.&nbsp; You keep saying that they can choose 2 of their spells when they gain a level.&nbsp; Congratulations to them.&nbsp; But that's only two spells per level.&nbsp; That's not every spell.&nbsp; And the only way your white room scenario works is if the casters have access to every spell, all the time.&nbsp; Because as soon as they don't, they no longer satisfy your claim that they are more powerful or can do more than a mundane class.I'm not sure how I can explain this any clearer.&nbsp; If you gain a level, and choose spells X and Y, and find yourself in a scenario where spell Z would be really helpful and X and Y really don't apply, guess what?&nbsp; That's an example of the spell not being available to be cast, throwing the entire foundation of your argument out the window.&nbsp; If you choose web and invisibility as your two spells when you hit level 3, how does that make the caster more powerful than the rogue when it comes time to disarm the trap and pick the lock?&nbsp; How does it make the caster more powerful than the fighter in combat against giant spiders?&nbsp; Knock isn't a spell that's available to you.&nbsp; Flaming sphere isn't available to you.&nbsp; And again, this is just one of the reasons that make the white room argument a ridiculous one.So basically, if you can't (or worse, refuse) to understand this very first part of why your argument fails, then there is literally no reason for me to continue with refuting all of your other posts point by point again.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sacrosanct, post: 6362530, member: 15700"] I'm going to be honest with you. After your previous post and this part below? I stopped reading. Because it seems clear to me that you are being either deliberately obtuse, or you're just not able to grasp what I'm saying. I'll explain why with just this first part I am NOT moving the goal posts. Cue a pic of Vizzini from Princess Bride. I have been consistent the entire time about casters might not have access to the spell to begin with. Because they might not. You keep saying that they can choose 2 of their spells when they gain a level. Congratulations to them. But that's only two spells per level. That's not [B]every [/B]spell. And the only way your white room scenario works is if the casters have access to [B]every [/B]spell, [B]all the time[/B]. Because as soon as they don't, they no longer satisfy your claim that they are more powerful or can do more than a mundane class. I'm not sure how I can explain this any clearer. If you gain a level, and choose spells X and Y, and find yourself in a scenario where spell Z would be really helpful and X and Y really don't apply, guess what? That's an example of the spell not being available to be cast, throwing the entire foundation of your argument out the window. If you choose web and invisibility as your two spells when you hit level 3, how does that make the caster more powerful than the rogue when it comes time to disarm the trap and pick the lock? How does it make the caster more powerful than the fighter in combat against giant spiders? Knock isn't a spell that's available to you. Flaming sphere isn't available to you. And again, this is just [I]one [/I]of the reasons that make the white room argument a ridiculous one. So basically, if you can't (or worse, refuse) to understand this very first part of why your argument fails, then there is literally no reason for me to continue with refuting all of your other posts point by point [I]again[/I]. [/QUOTE]

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