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<blockquote data-quote="Andor" data-source="post: 6362861" data-attributes="member: 1879">Well yes, Fun for the PCs and Fun for the GM are, or can be very different things. As I said in another thread as D&amp;D classes level up they go through transformative shift in ability and power. And which direction they transfom in and when is a bit unpredictable. I recall a 3e game where my large 7th level party ecountered a mooncalf. This critter had High Int, a fly speed and Call Lightning at will. Our party in spite of being 7th level was a mix of odd-ball and multiclassed characters none of whom could fly and who were pretty weak in ranged damage. It should have been a TPK, but the GM played the critter like a moron instead and we barely managed to beat it. It was ... pretty unsatisfying. Personally I'd rather have had us wiped and started over with a more coherant party. A 7th level party in 3e should be able to deal with a flying foe with ranged attacks. We couldn't. Although thinking back on it the Druid could have done a lot more, but the player hated his character and sandbagged a lot. So yeah, any system where the characters growth/abilities are unpredicable is a burden on the GM. The 40k RPG series is pretty popular where I am, but none of the GMs will touch Black Crusade with a 10' pole because designing encounters for it is such a pain. Now, can you wind up with a 5e party that was in the same boat as my 3e party? Yes, but you'ld have to try pretty hard. The barrier to entry on abilities like flight and (especially) competant ranged damage is lower. I think that with 5es bounded accuracy and flatter growth curve encounter building will be easier than in 3e. While Jack has valid points about encounter ending spells they apply more towards &quot;Boss monsters&quot; and not so much towards hordes. And hordes of Orcs will remain a valid threat just and the necromancers horde of skeletons does.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Andor, post: 6362861, member: 1879"] Well yes, Fun for the PCs and Fun for the GM are, or can be very different things. As I said in another thread as D&D classes level up they go through transformative shift in ability and power. And which direction they transfom in and when is a bit unpredictable. I recall a 3e game where my large 7th level party ecountered a mooncalf. This critter had High Int, a fly speed and Call Lightning at will. Our party in spite of being 7th level was a mix of odd-ball and multiclassed characters none of whom could fly and who were pretty weak in ranged damage. It should have been a TPK, but the GM played the critter like a moron instead and we barely managed to beat it. It was ... pretty unsatisfying. Personally I'd rather have had us wiped and started over with a more coherant party. A 7th level party in 3e [i]should[/i] be able to deal with a flying foe with ranged attacks. We couldn't. Although thinking back on it the Druid could have done a lot more, but the player hated his character and sandbagged a lot. So yeah, any system where the characters growth/abilities are unpredicable is a burden on the GM. The 40k RPG series is pretty popular where I am, but none of the GMs will touch Black Crusade with a 10' pole because designing encounters for it is such a pain. Now, can you wind up with a 5e party that was in the same boat as my 3e party? Yes, but you'ld have to try pretty hard. The barrier to entry on abilities like flight and (especially) competant ranged damage is lower. I think that with 5es bounded accuracy and flatter growth curve encounter building will be easier than in 3e. While Jack has valid points about encounter ending spells they apply more towards "Boss monsters" and not so much towards hordes. And hordes of Orcs will remain a valid threat just and the necromancers horde of skeletons does. [/QUOTE]

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