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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Andor" data-source="post: 6363358" data-attributes="member: 1879">Really? Fine, let's look at the math.Worst Case scenario.Boromir, Human Fighter-Champion. No Feats. Level 15Fighting Styles - Great Weapon & DefenseStr 20, Con 20.Hit Points: 10 + (6*14) + (15*5) = 169 (+ 20 points from 2nd wind)AC: 19 (Plate + Defense)Attack: +11 Greatsword 2d6+5 (Crit 18-20) Mean damage vs AC 13 = 123 Attacks per round kill 1.5 OrcsOrcsHP: 15AC: 13Attack +5 for 9 damage (Crit 20) Mean Damage vs AC 19 = 3.45The orcs need 54 attacks to bring down Boromir. Melee attacks. With their Javelins the number becomes 82.Mind you, we are allowing the Orcs to deal fractional damage, but not Boromir. We're also ignoring magic items, terrain, tactics and his action surge.Compared to a generic Guard the Orcs have worse AC, but better hitpoints, attack rolls and damage.Tell me again how Boromir, or any high level fighter is not worth a dozen lesser men, or Orcs?And of course if we allow poor Boromir access to the optional feat system he drops an orc with every hit, potentially killing 6 on an action surge. He also drops incoming damage by 3 per hit meaning the Orcs will need 76 attacks to drop Bormir. In melee, where he is killing 2 + a round. At range they are barely touching him. Still haven't given the poor guy a magic item though.The Champion chops a warhorse in half on a crit (which he get on 18-20), or with every blow if we allow feats. Jumping off a 2 story building does 11`damage to our example Boromir, out of his 169 total. It's not even worth wasting a second wind on. This is slowing him down how exactly? The guard who followed him is out and making death saves.I'm confused, are we accounting for Caps unique artifact level weapon in this discussion? Does the fighter get one too?Well, actually I've brought it up several times and you're the first person to challenge it. Would you can to explain where the analogy breaks down? D&D magic is learnable, transferable, it serves as tools for communicaton, transportation, force multiplication, healing, etc. The only thing it does not do is subject itself to industrialization. (In default D&D, in Eberron it obviously does.) Given that there is no industrial, assembly line style technology of any kind in the pseudo-medieval default technology of most D&D worlds I'm not clear on how the analogy fails. Why is the blacksmith employing technology when he smelts the iron and forges the sword, but not when he inscribes runes into it? Why is a ranger employing technology when he tans a hide, but not when he speaks to an animal?And to be clear, not all magic is learnable or transferable. A warlock, for example, is granted in his spells and probably doesn't understand them. Except for the Tome pact guy who can inscribe new spells in his book, clearly he has some grasp of it. And the fluff does indicate that not everyone can learn or perform magic, although that obviously doesn't apply to PCs. So what? Not everyone can fly a plane either. Color blindness will limit your ability to be a good electronics technician, but it's still only technology.</blockquote>

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