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<blockquote data-quote="Cybit" data-source="post: 6363810" data-attributes="member: 66111">Note that the spells used were not from the Feb playtest packet; but a later &amp; separate update.&nbsp; The spells in the Feb playtest packet were tagged as &quot;Not complete / in Draft&quot;. That said, I'll use the PHB versions moving forward through this post.&nbsp; 
We weren't using a MM or an equivalent, we were going through generated adventures and modules.&nbsp; Also, note that CR is a little different than it used to be.&nbsp; CR is the rough level you should be (+- some amount) to deal with a monster.&nbsp; So, for that CR 16 Adult Blue Dragon, from my understanding, it is a fairly easy encounter for a 16th level party. The reason being is I think the XP value determines the encounter difficulty.&nbsp; So a level 16 party facing a CR 16 Adult Blue Dragon by itself should wreck the dragon.&nbsp; But based on XP, I believe there would be quite a few more monsters along the way.&nbsp; Two caveats1) Casting time: 1 minute.&nbsp; Try getting that off in combat.&nbsp; 2) Has a saving throw.&nbsp; Legendary = NOPESequester: Willing Creature required.&nbsp; Reverse Gravity: Creatures had flight capabilities.&nbsp; Also, the high radius makes it extremely dangerous to use in combat with friendlies; this one really needs the wizard to win initiative over baddies.&nbsp; Contagion: Has a save, and for what they were fighting, Con saves weren't going to do squat. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-p" title="Stick out tongue&nbsp; &nbsp; :-p"&nbsp; data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":-p" />.&nbsp; While really useful against enemy casters - creatures that are immune to natural disease (undead, paladins, etc) also are flat out immune to the spell.&nbsp; Wall of Force: Much lower range in our test.&nbsp; Also, wasn't big enough to dome some of the targets. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />&nbsp; It IS a super nasty way to deal with a couple of martial folks; but I get to that expectation later on...Part of it is that I think the amount of multiple creature fights is higher in this edition, and we're used to a fewer high level monsters for high level encounters from 3E.&nbsp; Bounded accuracy should change the expectation for what kind of fights you run into in the mid to high levels, and a wizard's lockdown abilities can be more effective with more monsters, up to a certain point, where the efficiency drops down dramatically because they just can't target everyone.&nbsp; Look at the later encounters in Hoard of the Dragon Queen; you will see that a lot of the &quot;boss&quot; encounters tend to be a higher level monster (than the party) along with 10+ subordinates coming from multiple directions.&nbsp; Heck, in one encounter, I think there are 6 to 8 equal level casters (in terms of casting spells, not for HP and everything) rolling with the leader.&nbsp; That's a typical &quot;boss&quot; type of fight.&nbsp; Also, it could be that the encounter design was just done well.&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;shrug&gt;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cybit, post: 6363810, member: 66111"] Note that the spells used were not from the Feb playtest packet; but a later & separate update. The spells in the Feb playtest packet were tagged as "Not complete / in Draft". That said, I'll use the PHB versions moving forward through this post. [INDENT] [/INDENT] We weren't using a MM or an equivalent, we were going through generated adventures and modules. Also, note that CR is a little different than it used to be. CR is the rough level you should be (+- some amount) to deal with a monster. So, for that CR 16 Adult Blue Dragon, from my understanding, it is a fairly easy encounter for a 16th level party. The reason being is I think the XP value determines the encounter difficulty. So a level 16 party facing a CR 16 Adult Blue Dragon by itself should wreck the dragon. But based on XP, I believe there would be quite a few more monsters along the way. Two caveats 1) Casting time: 1 [B]minute. [/B]Try getting that off in combat. 2) Has a saving throw. Legendary = NOPE Sequester: Willing Creature required. Reverse Gravity: Creatures had flight capabilities. Also, the high radius makes it extremely dangerous to use in combat with friendlies; this one really needs the wizard to win initiative over baddies. Contagion: Has a save, and for what they were fighting, Con saves weren't going to do squat. :-p. While really useful against enemy casters - creatures that are immune to natural disease (undead, paladins, etc) also are flat out immune to the spell. Wall of Force: Much lower range in our test. Also, wasn't big enough to dome some of the targets. :D It IS a super nasty way to deal with a couple of martial folks; but I get to that expectation later on... Part of it is that I think the amount of multiple creature fights is higher in this edition, and we're used to a fewer high level monsters for high level encounters from 3E. Bounded accuracy should change the expectation for what kind of fights you run into in the mid to high levels, and a wizard's lockdown abilities can be more effective with more monsters, up to a certain point, where the efficiency drops down dramatically because they just can't target everyone. Look at the later encounters in Hoard of the Dragon Queen; you will see that a lot of the "boss" encounters tend to be a higher level monster (than the party) along with 10+ subordinates coming from multiple directions. Heck, in one encounter, I think there are 6 to 8 equal level casters (in terms of casting spells, not for HP and everything) rolling with the leader. That's a typical "boss" type of fight. Also, it could be that the encounter design was just done well. <shrug> [/QUOTE]

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