D&D 3E/3.5 Class and cross-class skills in 3.5e

[ciaran00]

I am looking at class-ness and cross-class-ness for the core classes in 3.5 PHB. Why do you think that they have things like:
* Use Rope being CC for fighters, same for Knowledge (dungeoneering)
* All knowledges being in class for wizards
* All but one being CC for the sorceror

These choices make no real sense to me... are they just there for balance? Or is there something I'm missing?

ciaran

 

[Gez]

No, they don't necessarily make sense.

Heal, for example, is far more useful to fighters (with a combat medic archetype) than to clerics (they've got cure wounds).

I've decided to adopt a little house-rule that CC skill ranks are paid the normal price (1 rank for 1 point) but the max rank is still halved.

 

[ciaran00]

How much of a bad idea do you think changing these around are? Ie: I made Use Rope a class skill for fighters?

ciaran

 

[Golem2176]

All knowledges being in class for wizards

Take a look at the 3.5 SRD or PHB (page 63), all Knowledge skills are class skills.

EDIT: My bad, I thought you were proposing your list as changes. You know it makes sense to me that wizards have all Knowledges as class skills, otherwis how would sages effectively do their job? I think most sages are wizards, to some degree. Thoughts?

 

[Thresher]

1st gripe about CC skills:
Not enough points, a generic +2 skill points per level wouldnt hurt.

2nd gripe about CC skills:
Basic survival skills like Spot, Search & Listen arent available to many classes.

But I do like Gez's idea, thats one of the easier way to may a character able to pick up a few different skills, add a few back ground skills and so forth. Its a bit easier than re-doing the whole class skills thing. However there should be some leeway for a character with sufficient enough background being able to change their starting lineup of skills.

 

[Thresher]

Take a look at the 3.5 SRD or PHB (page 63), all Knowledge skills are class skills.

EDIT: My bad, I thought you were proposing your list as changes. You know it makes sense to me that wizards have all Knowledges as class skills, otherwis how would sages effectively do their job? I think most sages are wizards, to some degree. Thoughts?

Actually Im thinking most would probably as NPC's be Experts rather than wizards, plenty of oppertunities out there for a DM to have places of learning in some of the more civilised areas where an academic could flourish.

 

[BSF]

To be honest, I decided to test the waters by eliminating class/cross-class skills from my game for my new campaign. Every skill is, effectively, a class skill for everyone. I am working with the theory that this will allow my players to build characters they really want to play and will have more fun playing. So far, it seems to be doing alright, but we aren't far enough into the campaign for me to really tell.

 

[Golem2176]

Actually Im thinking most would probably as NPC's be Experts rather than wizards, plenty of oppertunities out there for a DM to have places of learning in some of the more civilised areas where an academic could flourish.

If most sages are experts and all ten of their class skils are the Knowledge skills, they aren't very effective at anything else.

I think most sages would also have maximum ranks in Profession (sage). All the other skills that wizards have also come in handy for sages. So, I don't think your argument that most sages are experts holds much precedence.

 

[Golem2176]

Now that I think about it, I'm going to implement that all experts in my campaign have 15 skills as class skills. It's going to mean a major overhaul (I've made up stats for about 115 npc experts), but what the heck. If experts make up the majority of sages, then this house ruling makes sense.

EDIT: Also, in my opinion shouldn't experts automatically have the Profession skill, without having to select it? It's silly for them not to automatically have it. There's another new house ruling I'm adding effective immediately. Also, I'll drop the amount of class skills to 14 to reflect this.

 

[Thresher]

If most sages are experts and all ten of their class skils are the Knowledge skills, they aren't very effective at anything else.

I think most sages would also have maximum ranks in Profession (sage). All the other skills that wizards have also come in handy for sages. So, I don't think your argument that most sages are experts holds much precedence.

Have you met a lot of people with PhD after their name? Most of the ones I know tend to be fairly useless as a rule for anything outside their particular fields of experitise, that includes things like car maintaince, using a computer, finding their way outside the campus, balancing a check book... etc etc
Thats not to say their ALL like that , but they do tend to keep to a field of their expertise rather than diversify past more than 3-4 other things.
That said, theres maybe some room for a 'Sage' NPC class out there but I think in a pinch a high-Int expert would do fine, a concentration for 2-3 of his class skills receiving 3 skill points, 4 class skills with a starting rank of about 2 and the other 3 being basic survival/interpersonal skills at 1 or so. Add to that he can have a skill focus feat as his 1st level feat for 1 of the primary class skills.

ie: Level 2 Human Expert with Int 18
Staring Skill points: 10x4 +4+10 = 54
* Class # X-Class
*Know: Planes 5
*Know: Arcana 5
*Know: History 5
*Know: Local 3
*Perform: Oratory 3
*Decipher Script 4
*Profession: Academic 3
*Craft: Manuscripts 3
*Diplomacy 3
*Search 4
Bonus Languages/Writing 4
# Forgery 1
# Sense Motive 2
# Ride 2
# Listen 1
# Spot 1
Feats:
Skill Focus- Know Planes
Alertness

Well thats my hack at a 'Academic' type of person anyway.