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General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Class Balance In A5E: How Much Damage Should A Damage Dealer Deal?
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<blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 8084829" data-attributes="member: 72555"><p>I'm going to do a sanity check on your level 20 rogue (thief).</p><p></p><p>So we hit 60% of the time and have two short swords.</p><p></p><p>The first hits for 1d6+5, the second for 1d6.</p><p></p><p>We use sneak attack on the first one that hits.</p><p></p><p>This gives sneak attack a 91% accuracy and a 7% crit rate (miss first swing, crit on second).</p><p></p><p>0.91 * 35 = 31.85</p><p>0.07 * 35 = 2.45</p><p></p><p>We get 1.2 sword hits (4.2), 0.1 sword crits (0.35), and 0.6 DEX bonus (3) damage)</p><p></p><p>Total 41.85 damage per round.</p><p></p><p>Over 3 rounds you get 4 (thief feature), so 55.8 damage per round.</p><p></p><p>---</p><p></p><p>For the Paladin, over 3 rounds you get 3.6 hits and 0.3 crits.</p><p></p><p>We use a great weapon for 2d6R12 or 8.33 dice damage per swing, +4.5 from imp divine smite, +9 from holy weapon (either cast it round 1, or have it up before hand; you have little use for bonus action in this combo). You can even recast it if it goes down (2 5th level slots).</p><p></p><p>21.83 damage dice per swing. Times 3.9 is <strong>85.15</strong> over 3 rounds.</p><p></p><p>+5 static damage for <strong>18</strong> damage.</p><p></p><p>Before combat (hour long buff) you have holy weapon up (+9 damage per hit/crit). On turn 3 you make it burst for 4d8 aoe (<strong>21.</strong>6) for a bonus action.</p><p></p><p>You have a griffon companion (find greater steed). Your accuracy is +11; it has +6, so it hits 35% of the time. 11.5 dice damage times 3 rounds times 0.4 is 13.8, plus 8 * 3 * .35 is <strong>22.2</strong> from the griffon. (either use it as an intelligent independent mount, or dismount and have it attack as an allied creature).</p><p></p><p>We have enough slots to drop 5d8 smites on every hit; so 22.5 * 3.9 is <strong>87.75</strong> smite damage. (If you do run short of 4th/5th slots, a 3rd slot only costs you a tiny bit of damage).</p><p></p><p>Total is: 87.75 + 22.2 + 21.6 + 18 + 85.15 = 234.7, divided by 3 is <strong>78.2</strong> damage per round.</p><p></p><p>You seem to be underselling the Paladin.</p><p></p><p>This uses 0 subclass features.</p><p></p><p>---</p><p></p><p>For the BM, you'd want to choose mostly precision and riposte to spend dice on.</p><p></p><p>Those are highly efficient ways to spend dice, and you burn them pretty quickly that way.</p><p></p><p>6d12.</p><p></p><p>Your basic hit is 13.333 damage.</p><p></p><p>Your basic swing is worth 13.333 * .6 + 8.33*.05 = 8.4163.</p><p></p><p>A die spent on a miss by 1 is worth 13.33 damage.</p><p>By 2 is worth 12.2</p><p>By 3 is worth 11.1</p><p>By 4 is worth 10</p><p>By 5 is worth 8.9</p><p>By 6 is worth 7.8</p><p>By 7 is worth 6.7</p><p>By 8 is worth 5.6</p><p></p><p>A riposte is worth 12.7 but you probably don't get enough of them.</p><p></p><p>A die spent after a hit is worth 6.5, after a crit is worth 13.</p><p></p><p>So you burn dice on (a) crits, (b) ripostes, then (c) on near miss attacks.</p><p></p><p>You get 5 actions, each with 4 attacks, so you get 20 attacks. You can expect 1 crit.</p><p></p><p>We'll give you 3 misses from monsters.</p><p></p><p>That leaves 2 dice for precision. At 20 attacks, you'll get an average of 1 that misses by 1, and 1 that misses by 2.</p><p></p><p>So 13.3 + 12.2 + 13 + 12.7*3 = <strong>76.6</strong> damage from your 6 BM dice.</p><p></p><p>On top of that 20 swings at 8.4163 = <strong>168.326</strong> from just attacking</p><p>= 244.926, or <strong>81.6 DPR</strong></p><p></p><p>(BM dice get more complex because you can run short or have extra; note, however, that we can save them for misses by 1 or 2, crits, and when an enemy misses us, and get 11-13 expected damage per die. That is a lot of opportunities... If we expand to using it on misses by 3 or 4 we get a plethora, and nearly the same damage output.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="NotAYakk, post: 8084829, member: 72555"] I'm going to do a sanity check on your level 20 rogue (thief). So we hit 60% of the time and have two short swords. The first hits for 1d6+5, the second for 1d6. We use sneak attack on the first one that hits. This gives sneak attack a 91% accuracy and a 7% crit rate (miss first swing, crit on second). 0.91 * 35 = 31.85 0.07 * 35 = 2.45 We get 1.2 sword hits (4.2), 0.1 sword crits (0.35), and 0.6 DEX bonus (3) damage) Total 41.85 damage per round. Over 3 rounds you get 4 (thief feature), so 55.8 damage per round. --- For the Paladin, over 3 rounds you get 3.6 hits and 0.3 crits. We use a great weapon for 2d6R12 or 8.33 dice damage per swing, +4.5 from imp divine smite, +9 from holy weapon (either cast it round 1, or have it up before hand; you have little use for bonus action in this combo). You can even recast it if it goes down (2 5th level slots). 21.83 damage dice per swing. Times 3.9 is [B]85.15[/B] over 3 rounds. +5 static damage for [B]18[/B] damage. Before combat (hour long buff) you have holy weapon up (+9 damage per hit/crit). On turn 3 you make it burst for 4d8 aoe ([B]21.[/B]6) for a bonus action. You have a griffon companion (find greater steed). Your accuracy is +11; it has +6, so it hits 35% of the time. 11.5 dice damage times 3 rounds times 0.4 is 13.8, plus 8 * 3 * .35 is [B]22.2[/B] from the griffon. (either use it as an intelligent independent mount, or dismount and have it attack as an allied creature). We have enough slots to drop 5d8 smites on every hit; so 22.5 * 3.9 is [B]87.75[/B] smite damage. (If you do run short of 4th/5th slots, a 3rd slot only costs you a tiny bit of damage). Total is: 87.75 + 22.2 + 21.6 + 18 + 85.15 = 234.7, divided by 3 is [B]78.2[/B] damage per round. You seem to be underselling the Paladin. This uses 0 subclass features. --- For the BM, you'd want to choose mostly precision and riposte to spend dice on. Those are highly efficient ways to spend dice, and you burn them pretty quickly that way. 6d12. Your basic hit is 13.333 damage. Your basic swing is worth 13.333 * .6 + 8.33*.05 = 8.4163. A die spent on a miss by 1 is worth 13.33 damage. By 2 is worth 12.2 By 3 is worth 11.1 By 4 is worth 10 By 5 is worth 8.9 By 6 is worth 7.8 By 7 is worth 6.7 By 8 is worth 5.6 A riposte is worth 12.7 but you probably don't get enough of them. A die spent after a hit is worth 6.5, after a crit is worth 13. So you burn dice on (a) crits, (b) ripostes, then (c) on near miss attacks. You get 5 actions, each with 4 attacks, so you get 20 attacks. You can expect 1 crit. We'll give you 3 misses from monsters. That leaves 2 dice for precision. At 20 attacks, you'll get an average of 1 that misses by 1, and 1 that misses by 2. So 13.3 + 12.2 + 13 + 12.7*3 = [B]76.6[/B] damage from your 6 BM dice. On top of that 20 swings at 8.4163 = [B]168.326[/B] from just attacking = 244.926, or [B]81.6 DPR[/B] (BM dice get more complex because you can run short or have extra; note, however, that we can save them for misses by 1 or 2, crits, and when an enemy misses us, and get 11-13 expected damage per die. That is a lot of opportunities... If we expand to using it on misses by 3 or 4 we get a plethora, and nearly the same damage output.) [/QUOTE]
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Class Balance In A5E: How Much Damage Should A Damage Dealer Deal?
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