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General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Class Balance In A5E: How Much Damage Should A Damage Dealer Deal?
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<blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 8113241" data-attributes="member: 72555"><p>So at level 9+, your champion fighter is up against animate objects.</p><p></p><p>You dump a quiver and summon 10 tiny animated arrows that each deal 1d4+4 damage, totaling to 65 damage at +8 to hit.</p><p></p><p>That is roughly a full attack with a +2 greatsword at level 11 with greatweapon fighting style and greatweapon feat. But the caster burns 1 action and 1 spell slot and concentration, and every round afterwards gets to deal the damage (bonus action to redirect).</p><p></p><p>And if the foe doesn't drop quick, they can order aid another actions instead of the 6.5, giving advantage to some martial character.</p><p></p><p>Other things that match or exceed +2 greatsword attack include a hexblade curse augmented magic missil</p><p></p><p>By level 11, when the fighter finally gets the 3rd attack, the wizard gets otto's irresistable dance. It takes some bad guy, grants basically incapacitates them, and doesn't grant a save until the it burns a turn of the target and grants all allies advantage for a round.</p><p></p><p>At level 13, the spellcaster gets force cage. Two spellcasters can simply win against a foe who cannot teleport; one drops an AOE damage type effect, the other drops forcecage, and the targets trapped ... just lose.</p><p></p><p>Or contagion. Melee spell attack to inflict poisoned (no save). Then the target has to make/fail 3 saves; on the 3rd, they basically lose the game. You have to pass <strong>3 saves</strong> to get rid of poisoned.</p><p></p><p>Poisoned is almost a "you lose"; disadvantage on all attacks and ability checks. So here we have "hit, and target loses for 3 rounds" unless target is immune to poisoned condition.</p><p></p><p>Telekinesis; restrain with an opposed ability check. Bother your local bard to make this trivial (enhance ability, bardic inspiration) or priest (guidance). Restrain is "disadvantage on all attacks, advantage on all attacks on them"; a "you lose" effect.</p><p></p><p>---</p><p></p><p>Yes, in 5e, the at-will damage of a damage optimized weapon wielder approaches or exceeds the damage output of a non-optimized spellcaster.</p><p></p><p>Given the number of things the spellcaster can do, including magnify the damage of the weapon user, it isn't all that big of a problem.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="NotAYakk, post: 8113241, member: 72555"] So at level 9+, your champion fighter is up against animate objects. You dump a quiver and summon 10 tiny animated arrows that each deal 1d4+4 damage, totaling to 65 damage at +8 to hit. That is roughly a full attack with a +2 greatsword at level 11 with greatweapon fighting style and greatweapon feat. But the caster burns 1 action and 1 spell slot and concentration, and every round afterwards gets to deal the damage (bonus action to redirect). And if the foe doesn't drop quick, they can order aid another actions instead of the 6.5, giving advantage to some martial character. Other things that match or exceed +2 greatsword attack include a hexblade curse augmented magic missil By level 11, when the fighter finally gets the 3rd attack, the wizard gets otto's irresistable dance. It takes some bad guy, grants basically incapacitates them, and doesn't grant a save until the it burns a turn of the target and grants all allies advantage for a round. At level 13, the spellcaster gets force cage. Two spellcasters can simply win against a foe who cannot teleport; one drops an AOE damage type effect, the other drops forcecage, and the targets trapped ... just lose. Or contagion. Melee spell attack to inflict poisoned (no save). Then the target has to make/fail 3 saves; on the 3rd, they basically lose the game. You have to pass [b]3 saves[/b] to get rid of poisoned. Poisoned is almost a "you lose"; disadvantage on all attacks and ability checks. So here we have "hit, and target loses for 3 rounds" unless target is immune to poisoned condition. Telekinesis; restrain with an opposed ability check. Bother your local bard to make this trivial (enhance ability, bardic inspiration) or priest (guidance). Restrain is "disadvantage on all attacks, advantage on all attacks on them"; a "you lose" effect. --- Yes, in 5e, the at-will damage of a damage optimized weapon wielder approaches or exceeds the damage output of a non-optimized spellcaster. Given the number of things the spellcaster can do, including magnify the damage of the weapon user, it isn't all that big of a problem. [/QUOTE]
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Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Class Balance In A5E: How Much Damage Should A Damage Dealer Deal?
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