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General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Class Balance In A5E: How Much Damage Should A Damage Dealer Deal?
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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8113336" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>There are a few problems with that, all of which I mentioned</p><p>[spoiler="extra dice"]</p><p>+1d6 per weapon</p><p>[ATTACH=full]127833[/ATTACH]</p><p>1d8+2d8+3</p><p>[ATTACH=full]127834[/ATTACH]</p><p>[/spoiler]</p><p>[spoiler="resistance is one sided"]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]127836[/ATTACH]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]127837[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]127835[/ATTACH]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]127839[/ATTACH]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]127840[/ATTACH]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]127841[/ATTACH]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]127842[/ATTACH]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]127843[/ATTACH]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]127844[/ATTACH]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]127845[/ATTACH]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]127846[/ATTACH]</p><p>So is immunity & I didn't even mention all the stuff just poison immune</p><p>[ATTACH=full]127838[/ATTACH]</p><p>[/spoiler]</p><p>That's not even close to done with the creatures in descent & energy resistance paired with resist to <u>non</u>magical B/P/S. Nor does it touch on the many creatures with </p><p>[spoiler="straight up magic resistance"]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]127847[/ATTACH][/spoiler]</p><p></p><p>All of this adds up into a massive overcompensation with too many pieces trying to defend on their own against LFQW while concentration & other class specific quirks are trying to do the same. As to your "Given the number of things the spellcaster can do" comment, concentration & the need to have specific spells known/prepared along with the need to have a huge number of attack spells prepared because casters alone are regularly subject to both condition & damage resistances all the way to 20.</p><p></p><p>Also, nowhere in animate object does it note that damage from those creatures is magical, nor does the animated armor, flying sword, or rug of smothering in the monster manual, the animated halberd in CoS, & so on... So go ahead and cut that in half too unless you think "maybe the gm will ignore that even though there are abilities like..."</p><p>[spoiler="This"]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]127848[/ATTACH][/spoiler]</p><p>That suggest it should not be considered magical. Oh yea, the class/archetype with that ability doesn't get animated object. You can claim that this is only for a "non optimized spellcaster", but there simply are not magic items to change things of any rarity & the fact that a mere rare magic item throws it off this badly is telling when you look at things like the belt of giant strength bumping strength to 21/23/25/27/29 but no other stat enjoys such an item or the numerous magic weapons/armor that add +# in addition to effects, extra dice, and/or literal utility spells.</p><p>Oh yea, don't forget things like this +2 shield with true sight, an aura of dread, common<>infernal translation capability, & the ability to cast fireball/firewall</p><p>[spoiler="Obtained on page -five-"]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]127849[/ATTACH]</p><p>[/spoiler]</p><p>along with all the great martial specific gear stacked against a wand of magic missile, wand of the warmage +1, & wand of secrets , & a couple spellbooks paired with too little gold in the entire adventure to really do much of anything with if the wizard wanting to use them is just taking an equal share of gold & not much more if they are taking <em>all</em> the gold. Descent into avernus lays bare just how hollow so many of your arguments from the days when LFQW was still a thing & because I did mess up on the damage boost by not multiplying the +2s after the crit range bump is applied to champion it should be fairly similar for any other fighter archetype.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8113336, member: 93670"] There are a few problems with that, all of which I mentioned [spoiler="extra dice"] +1d6 per weapon [ATTACH type="full"]127833[/ATTACH] 1d8+2d8+3 [ATTACH type="full"]127834[/ATTACH] [/spoiler] [spoiler="resistance is one sided"] [ATTACH type="full"]127836[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full"]127837[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full"]127835[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full"]127839[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full"]127840[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full"]127841[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full"]127842[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full"]127843[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full"]127844[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full"]127845[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full"]127846[/ATTACH] So is immunity & I didn't even mention all the stuff just poison immune [ATTACH type="full"]127838[/ATTACH] [/spoiler] That's not even close to done with the creatures in descent & energy resistance paired with resist to [U]non[/U]magical B/P/S. Nor does it touch on the many creatures with [spoiler="straight up magic resistance"] [ATTACH type="full"]127847[/ATTACH][/spoiler] All of this adds up into a massive overcompensation with too many pieces trying to defend on their own against LFQW while concentration & other class specific quirks are trying to do the same. As to your "Given the number of things the spellcaster can do" comment, concentration & the need to have specific spells known/prepared along with the need to have a huge number of attack spells prepared because casters alone are regularly subject to both condition & damage resistances all the way to 20. Also, nowhere in animate object does it note that damage from those creatures is magical, nor does the animated armor, flying sword, or rug of smothering in the monster manual, the animated halberd in CoS, & so on... So go ahead and cut that in half too unless you think "maybe the gm will ignore that even though there are abilities like..." [spoiler="This"] [ATTACH type="full"]127848[/ATTACH][/spoiler] That suggest it should not be considered magical. Oh yea, the class/archetype with that ability doesn't get animated object. You can claim that this is only for a "non optimized spellcaster", but there simply are not magic items to change things of any rarity & the fact that a mere rare magic item throws it off this badly is telling when you look at things like the belt of giant strength bumping strength to 21/23/25/27/29 but no other stat enjoys such an item or the numerous magic weapons/armor that add +# in addition to effects, extra dice, and/or literal utility spells. Oh yea, don't forget things like this +2 shield with true sight, an aura of dread, common<>infernal translation capability, & the ability to cast fireball/firewall [spoiler="Obtained on page -five-"] [ATTACH type="full"]127849[/ATTACH] [/spoiler] along with all the great martial specific gear stacked against a wand of magic missile, wand of the warmage +1, & wand of secrets , & a couple spellbooks paired with too little gold in the entire adventure to really do much of anything with if the wizard wanting to use them is just taking an equal share of gold & not much more if they are taking [I]all[/I] the gold. Descent into avernus lays bare just how hollow so many of your arguments from the days when LFQW was still a thing & because I did mess up on the damage boost by not multiplying the +2s after the crit range bump is applied to champion it should be fairly similar for any other fighter archetype. [/QUOTE]
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Class Balance In A5E: How Much Damage Should A Damage Dealer Deal?
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