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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Class Balance - why?
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<blockquote data-quote="stevelabny" data-source="post: 5782177" data-attributes="member: 9298"><p>Too many of these wizards-do-it-all posts ignore the stupidity of the 5 minute workday. If the DM and the other party-members allow the 5-minute workday, then YES the wizard is overpowered. In reality, there should be no chance this happens. The DM should do everything in his power to prevent this from happening, and the other players should absolutely leave the wizard behind if he wants a nap after one room/battle in the dungeon/cavern/forest/etc. </p><p></p><p>Have I seen 3.x wizards use scribe scroll or craft wondrous items? yes. More often than not, those items are given to other party members to provide party balance and versatility. And once again, time is a factor. If the wizard has become a stay-at-home crafter who wants months off between adventures...he has to miss some adventures. Campaigns MUST have certain elements on a timeline. </p><p></p><p>Most wizards I've played or played with haven't taken the replace-other-class spells, because they were a waste of resources if you already had a friend you traveled with who could perform the same function. As a matter of fact, it would be perfectly in character for a thief PC to watch a wizard cast Knock for the 3rd time in a week and shiv him in his sleep. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /> Or at the very least, to go find a different adventuring party. What kind of tool wizard selects spells that kill team morale?</p><p></p><p>Most wizards I've seen have had to contend with one or more of anti-magic doohickeys, silence, lack of spellbook/spell component pouch, magic-is-evil cultures, lack of sleep, super-long workdays, decoy targets to draw out spells, surprise encounters that haven't been prepared for, and a ton of other things that can EASILY "balance" them well through 12-15th level at the very least. </p><p></p><p>And this isn't "the DM fixing things" as all of these things are specifically spelled out in the rulebooks. You CANNOT have a D&D game without a DM. Even if you're playing a videogame, the developer is the "invisible DM". The encounters do not exist without a DM and therefore asking the DM to balance them is a perfectly valid requirement. </p><p></p><p>And if the wizard thinks he is being "picked on" with all these balances, he needs to only look at the rogue whenever there is a roomful of undead, Or a fighter when there's a locked stone door. The difference is, no rogue ever whined when he encountered plants or undead because they are expected to be a semi-common occurrence. And the one time or two times per campaign a wizard has his spellbook stolen, the wizard says its because the DM sucks.</p><p></p><p>Class drawbacks are a part of the balance. And the nebulous idea that drawbacks aren't fun and that we should never not have have fun is one of the things that is killing gaming. (See various save-or-die threads or videogame threads for further details)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="stevelabny, post: 5782177, member: 9298"] Too many of these wizards-do-it-all posts ignore the stupidity of the 5 minute workday. If the DM and the other party-members allow the 5-minute workday, then YES the wizard is overpowered. In reality, there should be no chance this happens. The DM should do everything in his power to prevent this from happening, and the other players should absolutely leave the wizard behind if he wants a nap after one room/battle in the dungeon/cavern/forest/etc. Have I seen 3.x wizards use scribe scroll or craft wondrous items? yes. More often than not, those items are given to other party members to provide party balance and versatility. And once again, time is a factor. If the wizard has become a stay-at-home crafter who wants months off between adventures...he has to miss some adventures. Campaigns MUST have certain elements on a timeline. Most wizards I've played or played with haven't taken the replace-other-class spells, because they were a waste of resources if you already had a friend you traveled with who could perform the same function. As a matter of fact, it would be perfectly in character for a thief PC to watch a wizard cast Knock for the 3rd time in a week and shiv him in his sleep. :lol: Or at the very least, to go find a different adventuring party. What kind of tool wizard selects spells that kill team morale? Most wizards I've seen have had to contend with one or more of anti-magic doohickeys, silence, lack of spellbook/spell component pouch, magic-is-evil cultures, lack of sleep, super-long workdays, decoy targets to draw out spells, surprise encounters that haven't been prepared for, and a ton of other things that can EASILY "balance" them well through 12-15th level at the very least. And this isn't "the DM fixing things" as all of these things are specifically spelled out in the rulebooks. You CANNOT have a D&D game without a DM. Even if you're playing a videogame, the developer is the "invisible DM". The encounters do not exist without a DM and therefore asking the DM to balance them is a perfectly valid requirement. And if the wizard thinks he is being "picked on" with all these balances, he needs to only look at the rogue whenever there is a roomful of undead, Or a fighter when there's a locked stone door. The difference is, no rogue ever whined when he encountered plants or undead because they are expected to be a semi-common occurrence. And the one time or two times per campaign a wizard has his spellbook stolen, the wizard says its because the DM sucks. Class drawbacks are a part of the balance. And the nebulous idea that drawbacks aren't fun and that we should never not have have fun is one of the things that is killing gaming. (See various save-or-die threads or videogame threads for further details) [/QUOTE]
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