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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gronin" data-source="post: 5782735" data-attributes="member: 7603">Okay fair enough -- you make a valid point regarding there being a need for some reference to earlier editions.  Now as to a balance -- I am in complete agreement that balance doesn't only have to be a combat thing and that balance can come in the form of skill benefits or other areas.  That being said, combat is a big part of the majority of campaigns and as such all classes should be able to contribute in meaningful ways to the fight. To be completely honest I don't have the answer I am simply stating what I would like to see in an ideal game.  I do understand that there are certain sacrifices that need to be made in order to get a balanced set of characters.  As a side note and yes a reference to earlier editions and complaints of a lack of balance --- I have never been all that unhappy with how balanced any particular class was in any edition. Nor have I felt that all the classes were the same in 4th Ed.  Although I generally DM when I play I have never been interested in playing Wizards and rarely interested in Clerics.  I usually play a fighter or rogue and I have never felt like I wasn't contributing.  That being said I am a min/max type of player (I also love to role play) and I have a fairly large personality at the table so I really don't ever feel left out.Finally I am not a game designer (although like most of us I do tinker) and I cannot spend all day trying to work through this problem.  I am going to put my trust in a very talented group of people and hope that they can come up with a solution that I find satisfactory.  If they don't then my solution is simple -- I do not need to buy.Finally I would like to say that I hope nobody was offended by what I said earlier and that I always enjoy reading posts on ENWorld -- I may not always agree but it is nice to see such an active group of people all of whom a trying to make the game we all love better.  I would encourage everyone to throw their two cents worth in any time they have something to say --- it's kind of like voting if you don't participate in the process you have no right to complain about the results.</blockquote>

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