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<blockquote data-quote="hanez" data-source="post: 5783578" data-attributes="member: 82160">he ultimate key&nbsp; class?&nbsp; Really?&nbsp; Knock unlocks two mechanisms in the door at most.&nbsp; If it has 3 locks on it (a bolt, a chain, and a bar on the other side) it doesnt even open the door.&nbsp; How many knocks does you wizard really have memorized anyways?&nbsp; Max 4 knocks at 20th level? The rogue can pick locks at will all day.I agree that no class should replace anothers main area completely but lets try and keep a grip on reality.&nbsp; If your wizard is bent on replacing the rogues functionality with spiderclimb, lock and invisibilty and all the utilty spells, Such a wizard sure isn't going to&nbsp; have ANY damage spells or ANY protection spells,&nbsp; hes going to be a peon who can easily die, cause no damage, and is usless after about 10 actions (aka spells).&nbsp; The wizard is a lot more powerful in nostalgia, by people who dont realize you have to PICK THE RIGHT SPELL, or in very bad DMs campaigns.Cant believe we are still pretending the wiz was broken.&nbsp; If I'm going to memorize knocks and stuff like that for the party, Id better be appreciated because I dont wanna be all alone when Conan comes to get me with my measly dagger and d4 hitpoints.&nbsp; (or are monsters targeting wizards the oberoni fallacy?)&nbsp; Think Conan would quickly remind Gandalf how awesome it was to have a d12 hit dice, multiple attacks per rounds and psycho rage.&nbsp; (remember I can't fly away or cast a fireball because for some reason Im hellbent on replacing the rogue, not that a fireball would slow raging Conan down anyways)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="hanez, post: 5783578, member: 82160"] he ultimate key class? Really? Knock unlocks two mechanisms in the door at most. If it has 3 locks on it (a bolt, a chain, and a bar on the other side) it doesnt even open the door. How many knocks does you wizard really have memorized anyways? Max 4 knocks at 20th level? The rogue can pick locks at will all day. I agree that no class should replace anothers main area completely but lets try and keep a grip on reality. If your wizard is bent on replacing the rogues functionality with spiderclimb, lock and invisibilty and all the utilty spells, Such a wizard sure isn't going to have ANY damage spells or ANY protection spells, hes going to be a peon who can easily die, cause no damage, and is usless after about 10 actions (aka spells). The wizard is a lot more powerful in nostalgia, by people who dont realize you have to PICK THE RIGHT SPELL, or in very bad DMs campaigns. Cant believe we are still pretending the wiz was broken. If I'm going to memorize knocks and stuff like that for the party, Id better be appreciated because I dont wanna be all alone when Conan comes to get me with my measly dagger and d4 hitpoints. (or are monsters targeting wizards the oberoni fallacy?) Think Conan would quickly remind Gandalf how awesome it was to have a d12 hit dice, multiple attacks per rounds and psycho rage. (remember I can't fly away or cast a fireball because for some reason Im hellbent on replacing the rogue, not that a fireball would slow raging Conan down anyways) [/QUOTE]

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