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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5783686" data-attributes="member: 42582">But 4e does! via the lazy warlord.I don't follow this. Classes in 4e do different things. The fighter in my game doesn't do signficant damage, for example - he is a melee polearm controller. He stops things in their tracks and drops them prone. (He's actually a better controller than the wizard most of the time! The wizard in my game is built as a scholar, with not much more than the bare minimum of combat ability.)I'm curious as to what play experience this is based on. Even at first level, Flaming Sphere plays pretty differently from Brute Strike, Icy Terrain plays pretty differently from Passing Attack, and Thunderwave plays noticeably differently from Tide of Iron.In other words, this:Not to mention that the two classes have different skill lists, and wizards have cantrips and rituals.How would you resolve this is in AD&amp;D? 2nd ed AD&amp;D? 3E? 4e?I have no idea how to handle it in either edition of AD&amp;D. And I don't know 3E well enough (either the jump rules or the &quot;occupying another creature's space&quot; rules). In 4e I would treat it as an Athletics or Acrobatics check to gain combat advantage at the risk of taking damage from falling/being squashed (DCs and damage based on the page 42 charts, as errata-ed).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5783686, member: 42582"] But 4e does! via the lazy warlord. I don't follow this. Classes in 4e do different things. The fighter in my game doesn't do signficant damage, for example - he is a melee polearm controller. He stops things in their tracks and drops them prone. (He's actually a better controller than the wizard most of the time! The wizard in my game is built as a scholar, with not much more than the bare minimum of combat ability.) I'm curious as to what play experience this is based on. Even at first level, Flaming Sphere plays pretty differently from Brute Strike, Icy Terrain plays pretty differently from Passing Attack, and Thunderwave plays noticeably differently from Tide of Iron. In other words, this: Not to mention that the two classes have different skill lists, and wizards have cantrips and rituals. How would you resolve this is in AD&D? 2nd ed AD&D? 3E? 4e? I have no idea how to handle it in either edition of AD&D. And I don't know 3E well enough (either the jump rules or the "occupying another creature's space" rules). In 4e I would treat it as an Athletics or Acrobatics check to gain combat advantage at the risk of taking damage from falling/being squashed (DCs and damage based on the page 42 charts, as errata-ed). [/QUOTE]

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