Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Class Balance - why?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 5790270" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Balance is a critical aspect of any game, RPG or otherwise. Class balance is critical to D&D because Class is such a big part of a character.</p><p></p><p>So the game doesn't automatically suck for you based on the archetype you want to play.</p><p></p><p>No, it's prettymuch objective, but, yes, it can shift based on play conditions, if it's not very good balance. A well-balanced game will support a variety of play styles and conditions without breaking. </p><p></p><p>Ultimately, experience progression is entirely abstract. If you have one character that gets to level X and Y,000 exp, and another that gets to level X+2 at Y,000 exp, but the two are balanced at those different levels, then that is no different than having two charters balancing at the same level & exp totals. The only difference is that it's easier to tell that characters are of about the same power level if /level means the same thing to all classes/.</p><p></p><p>They did lose a certain, subjective, mystique, yes. That was a very small price to pay, though, especially as the loss is meaningless to anyone who doesn't have the same subjective opinion about 'mystique.' </p><p></p><p>4e casters still do tons of physically impossible things, it's just that in the abstract math of game mechanics, those things are more nearly balanced, now.</p><p></p><p>Putting balance in the hands of the DM makes the role much harder. That means more DMs screw up, running imbalanced campaigns that frustrate players and put them off D&D, and many more players simply never DM, because it is such a difficult and thankless job. In 4e, it's much easier to run. I was never able to find more than one or two campaigns of AD&D or 3e to play in at a time. I'm currently in 3 4e campaigns, plus one Gamma World, and I've turned down invitations to others. And, while I rarely ever ran 3e (having run AD&D for 10 years straight, so a little burned out at the outset, and just not having the time 3e demanded due to RL), I frequently run 4e.</p><p></p><p>It's just a much better game from the DM perspective. If you like the challenge of taking a really bad game, and thrashing and house-ruling it into playable shape, though, it's definitely not for you.</p><p></p><p>There was a /lot/ of that, yes. Vancian casting, too was a hard limit - but people made up spell-point systems. Each ed, actually, went and did what people were doing with their house rules: removed restrictions on casting without powering it down correspondingly. Until 4e, which leaves casting no more restricted than non-casting, but also not much more powerful.</p><p></p><p>It /should/, yes. Which is why balanced mechanics are better than crap mechanics - because they allow you to make your character about development and roleplay, instead of chasing broken combos.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 5790270, member: 996"] Balance is a critical aspect of any game, RPG or otherwise. Class balance is critical to D&D because Class is such a big part of a character. So the game doesn't automatically suck for you based on the archetype you want to play. No, it's prettymuch objective, but, yes, it can shift based on play conditions, if it's not very good balance. A well-balanced game will support a variety of play styles and conditions without breaking. Ultimately, experience progression is entirely abstract. If you have one character that gets to level X and Y,000 exp, and another that gets to level X+2 at Y,000 exp, but the two are balanced at those different levels, then that is no different than having two charters balancing at the same level & exp totals. The only difference is that it's easier to tell that characters are of about the same power level if /level means the same thing to all classes/. They did lose a certain, subjective, mystique, yes. That was a very small price to pay, though, especially as the loss is meaningless to anyone who doesn't have the same subjective opinion about 'mystique.' 4e casters still do tons of physically impossible things, it's just that in the abstract math of game mechanics, those things are more nearly balanced, now. Putting balance in the hands of the DM makes the role much harder. That means more DMs screw up, running imbalanced campaigns that frustrate players and put them off D&D, and many more players simply never DM, because it is such a difficult and thankless job. In 4e, it's much easier to run. I was never able to find more than one or two campaigns of AD&D or 3e to play in at a time. I'm currently in 3 4e campaigns, plus one Gamma World, and I've turned down invitations to others. And, while I rarely ever ran 3e (having run AD&D for 10 years straight, so a little burned out at the outset, and just not having the time 3e demanded due to RL), I frequently run 4e. It's just a much better game from the DM perspective. If you like the challenge of taking a really bad game, and thrashing and house-ruling it into playable shape, though, it's definitely not for you. There was a /lot/ of that, yes. Vancian casting, too was a hard limit - but people made up spell-point systems. Each ed, actually, went and did what people were doing with their house rules: removed restrictions on casting without powering it down correspondingly. Until 4e, which leaves casting no more restricted than non-casting, but also not much more powerful. It /should/, yes. Which is why balanced mechanics are better than crap mechanics - because they allow you to make your character about development and roleplay, instead of chasing broken combos. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Class Balance - why?
Top