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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DMKastmaria" data-source="post: 5794741" data-attributes="member: 6678082">Re: 3e - Ran one 3e campaign that went to high levels. The Fighter type guy had Samurai and Kensai prestige classes and was a virtual whirlwind of death. Who the hell played a straight Fighter in 3e, anyway? <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" />I agree that the MU class was too damn much in that edition, but the arguments about "caster-superiority" usually feature some rather selective data. Add in powerful magic items that the Fighter is going to be toting and the idea that they were worthless is more than a little overstated.Now, my player who insisted on playing a straight rogue, he was screwed. Practically begged him to roll up another character. It was almost impossible to challenge the rest of the party and not kill the poor PC. The Kensai, Sorcerer and Cleric, were able to hang together fine at 15th level.Re: 1e - If you were playing a Fighter in 1e and felt useless, then it was your fault or you had a crappy DM! Fighter's in my high level 1e game were riding dragons, leading armies numbering in the tens of thousands and had kick-ass magic items, to boot. Not to mention the fact that what your PC does is up to you! I've never once had an experienced player, be unable to significantly contribute and have fun, in a 1e game. Even at 20+ level (never had anyone play a straight Thief, but...)Quite the opposite and most experienced DM's have and had players who always, but always played Fighters. Because they like it! And have fun! On the other hand, I've played low level 1e MU's and still had a blast, participated and contributed to the game after casting my one little spell. Because it's a role-playing game and in 1e I can at least try to do damn near anything I can think of. The game is not just about the character sheet. Not the game I play and run, anyway.A 1e MU is freakin' awesome. But, they're still vulnerable, still can't cast a spell if they're exposed to jostling and are unprotected, etc. Personally, I don't let an MU get off a spell with a longer casting time than 1 segment, if he's directly threatened in melee. You can't stand relatively still and concentrate (necessary, per the DMG) when some bozo is waving a sword in your face. I'm not saying that there aren't some valid points on the "balance" side of the argument. But some of those arguments, seem totally disconnected from actual play. At least in my experience. One of those 1st level Mu's I talked about above, had to tackle a wererat, in a fight where no one in the party had a magic weapon. He was quite effective in that battle, and I used nothing from his character sheet, but his weight. </blockquote>

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