Class Books
- Thread starter Erekose
- Start date
DM with a vengence
First Post
I own S&F and DotF, and have read T&B and S&S
T&B: The best of the lot, lots of crunchy bits, and cool prestige classes. This one reaches out, grabs hold of your throat, and says "Play me!"
S&F: New feats, new weapons, lots of prestige classes. This one also has good prestige classes, but was marred by horrible editing. I found it flawed but decent.
DotF: While the section on temples was interesting, the feats, items, and prestige classes didn't seem that interesting. When was the last time you sat down and said "I'll play a Templar tonight."
S&S: This one just seemed really boring. While the feats were okay and the section on instraments pretty good, the prestige classes were very generic. I think that prestige classes aimed at the rogue can have trouble because of the customizability of the rogue.
T&B: The best of the lot, lots of crunchy bits, and cool prestige classes. This one reaches out, grabs hold of your throat, and says "Play me!"
S&F: New feats, new weapons, lots of prestige classes. This one also has good prestige classes, but was marred by horrible editing. I found it flawed but decent.
DotF: While the section on temples was interesting, the feats, items, and prestige classes didn't seem that interesting. When was the last time you sat down and said "I'll play a Templar tonight."
S&S: This one just seemed really boring. While the feats were okay and the section on instraments pretty good, the prestige classes were very generic. I think that prestige classes aimed at the rogue can have trouble because of the customizability of the rogue.
Claude Raines
First Post
Sodalis said:
I hope not. That would be a 500 page book! Plus I already have the class books. And I don't always need to lug all of them around. Anyway, I really doubt WotC will ever do this.
I own all five...
overall i am happy with them and they get use.
MOST used is Tome and Blood.
Second place runs Defenders and Sword and Fist neck and neck.
Third is masters but as time progresses it will move to second.
Fourth and a distant fourth at that is Song and Silence.
In terms of my preferences...
MotW is to me the best. great value on many fronts.
Tome and blood is next. very good for its guys and well done imo.
Defenders is good although i wanted more diety stuff. Now seeing D&DG and faiths coming out, i can understand their choices.
Sword anf Fist while good and useful did have enough errors to land it down here.
Song and Silence has good stuff but it just has not provoked the interest level the others have.
I would LOVE to have seen them maintain the "greyhawk" emphasis. FR has its own books and since much of these books copies stuff from the FRCS and MOF it seems like these books are the sourcebooks for the standard setting, ie greyhawk.
overall i am happy with them and they get use.
MOST used is Tome and Blood.
Second place runs Defenders and Sword and Fist neck and neck.
Third is masters but as time progresses it will move to second.
Fourth and a distant fourth at that is Song and Silence.
In terms of my preferences...
MotW is to me the best. great value on many fronts.
Tome and blood is next. very good for its guys and well done imo.
Defenders is good although i wanted more diety stuff. Now seeing D&DG and faiths coming out, i can understand their choices.
Sword anf Fist while good and useful did have enough errors to land it down here.
Song and Silence has good stuff but it just has not provoked the interest level the others have.
I would LOVE to have seen them maintain the "greyhawk" emphasis. FR has its own books and since much of these books copies stuff from the FRCS and MOF it seems like these books are the sourcebooks for the standard setting, ie greyhawk.
Dark Psion
First Post
My bigest problem with these books was grouping multiple classes together. Each class more than deserves a book this size and certain classes suffer. Just look at the new Beyond Monks and compare it to what monks got out of Sword & Fist. The same is true of the Barbarian in Masters of the Wild. Someone said nobody plays Druids, Rangers and Barbarians, well it is the purpose of books like these to MAKE you want to play with them.
As to each books usefullness, they have helped me create a bunch of psionic prestige classes (see RPGCosmos ) and I do find myself going back for S&F feats. The most dissapointing was Song & Silence, I was expecting more ways of using skills, feats for allowing unusual skill use, the way the Track feat allows you to use WIlderness Lore. Defenders of the Faith would be second worst for introducing PRCs with great style but little substance (see Hospitaler).
As to Greyhawk, I would like to play there, but where is the Greyhawk Campaign book, Monsters of Oerth, Magic of the Circle?? Can't play in a setting if there is no setting to play in.
(WOW! Made it to the end without pointing the lack of a psionic spatbook,..OOPS!)
As to each books usefullness, they have helped me create a bunch of psionic prestige classes (see RPGCosmos ) and I do find myself going back for S&F feats. The most dissapointing was Song & Silence, I was expecting more ways of using skills, feats for allowing unusual skill use, the way the Track feat allows you to use WIlderness Lore. Defenders of the Faith would be second worst for introducing PRCs with great style but little substance (see Hospitaler).
As to Greyhawk, I would like to play there, but where is the Greyhawk Campaign book, Monsters of Oerth, Magic of the Circle?? Can't play in a setting if there is no setting to play in.
(WOW! Made it to the end without pointing the lack of a psionic spatbook,..OOPS!)
I'd have to say that Tome and Blood is definately at the top of my list. It's been a huge asset, and several of the PrC's are quite useful for PCs, while others are great for flavorful villains (which is not a bad thing, IMO.)
Sword and Fist and Masters of the Wild are pretty much tied for 2. S&F b'c it is pretty useful, and has much cooler artwork, and MotW because it's polished (no errata stuffed in the back
), useful, but bland.
3. DoF is 3rd, because there is just a lot of unbalanced crap in it, but it's still semi useful.
And, I didn't even buy S&S--I went to check it out the instant it came out, browsed for about 15 minutes, and went spent my $20 on beer and Lotto tickets (and it was much more exciting).
But, I did just blow $20 on the Quint Fighter today on a total impulse buy, and that was a complete throw-away.
Sword and Fist and Masters of the Wild are pretty much tied for 2. S&F b'c it is pretty useful, and has much cooler artwork, and MotW because it's polished (no errata stuffed in the back
), useful, but bland.3. DoF is 3rd, because there is just a lot of unbalanced crap in it, but it's still semi useful.
And, I didn't even buy S&S--I went to check it out the instant it came out, browsed for about 15 minutes, and went spent my $20 on beer and Lotto tickets (and it was much more exciting).
But, I did just blow $20 on the Quint Fighter today on a total impulse buy, and that was a complete throw-away.
Well over all, the class books have been a little highly priced, and a little under used. Overall, We probably used Tome and Blood the most, alothough Song and Silence really didn't get a chance as we have no rogues at the moment. Masters of the wild I was NOT impressed with.
However, I have picked up Quintisential Rogue. This one book looks to have more use than all of the WOTC class books combined. It is what a class book should be. I am probably going to pick up Quintisential fighter just because QR is SO damn good.
Mongoose really out did WOTC.
Good Job Mr. Mearls.
Kinda funny how second hand publishers are starting to put out better stuff than WOTC.
WOTC products sure look pretty, but other than the Wheel of Time book, they haven't produced something incredible in a while.
my 2 cents.
Razuur
However, I have picked up Quintisential Rogue. This one book looks to have more use than all of the WOTC class books combined. It is what a class book should be. I am probably going to pick up Quintisential fighter just because QR is SO damn good.
Mongoose really out did WOTC.
Good Job Mr. Mearls.
Kinda funny how second hand publishers are starting to put out better stuff than WOTC.
WOTC products sure look pretty, but other than the Wheel of Time book, they haven't produced something incredible in a while.
my 2 cents.
Razuur
Last edited:
Uh......
I can't comment on the Quintessential Rogue, but the QF was NOT what i would term exceptional with the 'exception' of the sections on mercenaries, tournaments, strongholds, and the OMCS. The optional CHARACTER rules were riddled with rules gaffs and outright suspect concepts (Character concepts anyone?). In fact, if Psion's reviews have been any indication, and I do find myself largly sympathizing with his posts and reviews, the Quintessential line appears to have a comparative advantage with mechanics that effect narratives; while some of these are quite well conceived, they rarely have any effect on traditional notions of 'balance' because they offer only passive abilities, i.e. one's which are swayed heavily by DM fiat.
The Wotc splatbooks on the other hand are FAR stronger in Prcs, feats, and general CHARACTER mechanics which must be meticuously balanced, and Wizards is one of the few publishers willing to put in the neccessary grunt work here.
I can't comment on the Quintessential Rogue, but the QF was NOT what i would term exceptional with the 'exception' of the sections on mercenaries, tournaments, strongholds, and the OMCS. The optional CHARACTER rules were riddled with rules gaffs and outright suspect concepts (Character concepts anyone?). In fact, if Psion's reviews have been any indication, and I do find myself largly sympathizing with his posts and reviews, the Quintessential line appears to have a comparative advantage with mechanics that effect narratives; while some of these are quite well conceived, they rarely have any effect on traditional notions of 'balance' because they offer only passive abilities, i.e. one's which are swayed heavily by DM fiat.
The Wotc splatbooks on the other hand are FAR stronger in Prcs, feats, and general CHARACTER mechanics which must be meticuously balanced, and Wizards is one of the few publishers willing to put in the neccessary grunt work here.
