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<blockquote data-quote="S'mon" data-source="post: 5517344" data-attributes="member: 463">I can't tell if this is a straw man or you actually believe it.&nbsp; Do you understand that many people enjoy 4e, which is a very very different game from previous versions of D&amp;D, but dislike the complexity of building and running standard 4e PCs?&nbsp; I find 4e a great game to GM, 4e makes GMing a lot easier than running (eek) 3e.&nbsp; But a lot of the 4e classes are more complex than I like to play, and without electronic support from charbuilder software they're also too difficult to make.&nbsp; That kept me out of 4e for over a year after its release.&nbsp; For players like me, who like playing 4e bit would prefer reduced player-side complexity, the simpler Essentials classes are wonderful.&nbsp; I love my E-Thief PC; I wouldn't enjoy playing a PHB Rogue nearly as much, even if he were potentially more effective.&nbsp;&nbsp; I've enjoyed playing a 4e PHB Fighter, but it was hard work; harder than I like to work when playing.&nbsp; Playing a Knight or Slayer looks much easier &amp; thus for me more fun.&nbsp; And yet I still want to play 4e.&nbsp; There are so many ways where I find 4e much better than 3e - it has decent class balance, the non-AC defenses system is a million times better than 3e saving throws, the power of magic is greatly curtailed, fights are much more interesting, and so on.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="S'mon, post: 5517344, member: 463"] I can't tell if this is a straw man or you actually believe it. Do you understand that many people enjoy 4e, which is a very very different game from previous versions of D&D, but dislike the complexity of building and running standard 4e PCs? I find 4e a great game to GM, 4e makes GMing a lot easier than running (eek) 3e. But a lot of the 4e classes are more complex than I like to play, and without electronic support from charbuilder software they're also too difficult to make. That kept me out of 4e for over a year after its release. For players like me, who [B]like playing 4e[/B] bit would prefer reduced player-side complexity, the simpler Essentials classes are wonderful. I love my E-Thief PC; I wouldn't enjoy playing a PHB Rogue nearly as much, even if he were potentially more effective. I've enjoyed playing a 4e PHB Fighter, but it was hard work; harder than I like to work when playing. Playing a Knight or Slayer looks much easier & thus for me more fun. And yet I [B]still want to play 4e[/B]. There are so many ways where I find 4e much better than 3e - it has decent class balance, the non-AC defenses system is a million times better than 3e saving throws, the power of magic is greatly curtailed, fights are much more interesting, and so on. [/QUOTE]

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