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Class features with drawbacks
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<blockquote data-quote="Phazonfish" data-source="post: 7989742" data-attributes="member: 6855766"><p>It's also damage that is part of the class outside of the feature in question. Saying Rage damage should count towards Frenzy's total is like saying maneuver damage should count toward the extra attacks from Action Surge, because the attacks the superiority dice were applied to wouldn't have happened without Action Surge.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Martial Arts, Flurry of Blows, Two-Weapon Fighting, War Priest, Quickened Firebolt, Spiritual Weapon. And that's just non-feat granted attacks. Other impactful features also make use of this resource the Frenzy Barb is giving up. Also, why don't feats count again? After all, that's kind of an important point. The bonus action frenzy uses is such a drawback because now GWM grants Fighters and such a free attack when it procs, but Barbarians don't because they already spent it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You criticized the Fighter for "running out of gas" after a few rounds, but a character who is "out of gas" will perform the same as a character who has resources left but refuses to use them. It's not even about judging. If you face that gauntlet of encounters, even if you only use your frenzy on the last one, the Fighter could take no short rests, foolishly refuse to make use of his abilities until you frenzy, and still outperform the Barbarian in every fight except the last, and keep up for the first few rounds of the last.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Phazonfish, post: 7989742, member: 6855766"] It's also damage that is part of the class outside of the feature in question. Saying Rage damage should count towards Frenzy's total is like saying maneuver damage should count toward the extra attacks from Action Surge, because the attacks the superiority dice were applied to wouldn't have happened without Action Surge. Martial Arts, Flurry of Blows, Two-Weapon Fighting, War Priest, Quickened Firebolt, Spiritual Weapon. And that's just non-feat granted attacks. Other impactful features also make use of this resource the Frenzy Barb is giving up. Also, why don't feats count again? After all, that's kind of an important point. The bonus action frenzy uses is such a drawback because now GWM grants Fighters and such a free attack when it procs, but Barbarians don't because they already spent it. You criticized the Fighter for "running out of gas" after a few rounds, but a character who is "out of gas" will perform the same as a character who has resources left but refuses to use them. It's not even about judging. If you face that gauntlet of encounters, even if you only use your frenzy on the last one, the Fighter could take no short rests, foolishly refuse to make use of his abilities until you frenzy, and still outperform the Barbarian in every fight except the last, and keep up for the first few rounds of the last. [/QUOTE]
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