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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cadfan" data-source="post: 4772312" data-attributes="member: 40961">It wasn't intended to be stealthy, although I do feel that "bash" is a little overblown.  The first "when" referred to 3e.  The second "when" referred to 4e. 3e, when you look at non spellcasters, had rather simple classes.  Classes like the swashbuckler or the scout or the ranger or the rogue or the samurai basically gave you an attack bonus progression, save progression, and hit die progression, then a sprinkling of class abilities.  Its why the game could drop entirely new classes or alternate versions of existing classes into a two page Dragon article- when everything is attack bonus, hit die, and save progression, plus 7 or 8 class abilities, you just mod a few of them and Presto!  You've got a new or alternative class. I think its very easy for a class to feel redundant in that environment. Have you ever heard someone say, "why did they make this a class?  They could have just made class abilities X, Y, and Z into feats."  It wasn't an uncommon sentiment about certain 3e classes, like my poor, beloved, but also beleaguered swashbuckler. With classes being larger and more complex, ie, with classes having power lists the same way previous edition's spellcasters had spell lists, I think its easier to make classes feel different.  There's just more to work with.  And since you can create different *feels* for a class by mixing in various amounts of different types of abilities, there are a lot of possibilities.</blockquote>

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