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Message: <blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 7045173" data-attributes="member: 6704184">I think those are good criteria, [MENTION=15700]Sacrosanct[/MENTION], but I do think you *at least* exaggerate the case of threads with no compromise for balance regarding the warlord. 1st, most threads don't get very far into workshopping abilities and features before they get aggressively threadcrapped. 2nd, in the threads that haven't been threadcrapped, we are discussing different ways to accomplish the goals of the class without overpowering anything, but that comes *after* figuring out what things the class needs to accomplish. Usually, IME, people start with the idea, then execute with little regard to balance, *then* iterate to achieve balance. To use a non warlord example:I rebuilt the Shadow Monk, because it is close to what I want, but not quite there. Firstly, I consider Shadow walking (teleporting) a core pillar of he concept, so it can't come in at lvl 6. First. I looked at simply giving them the feature without the "advantage on your next attack" part, but a bonus action 60ft teleport is still too much, along with everything else they get at lvl 3. So, I played around with an ability to use your movement to teleport your speed while in dim light or darkness, and at lvl 6 your speed increases by 10ft in darkness, and you can use a bonus action to teleport your speed, and if you do you gain advantage on either the next Stealth check or attack roll you make. It's a little weird and clunky, so I also played with dim light or darkness simply increasing your speed, jumping, climbing, and acrobatics. But then the lvl 6 ability would obviate the use of the lvl 3 ability. Then I combined them. Dim light and darkness increase your speed by 5ft. You can use a bonus action and 1 ki to teleport your speed, and gain advantage on your next stealth check. I subtracted one of the spells at level 3, and put it in at lvl 6. At lvl 6, your speed bonus in dim light or darkness increases to 15ft, and gain advantage on your next stealth or attack roll after you teleport in dim light or darkness. It works great at the table now, does what I want, and isn't overpowered. My point being, the balance criteria has to come into play, but we shouldn't be dismissing class ideas because the concept sounds broken at first. We should let the people who are excited about it dig into the mechanics, and figure out how to balance it.</blockquote>

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