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General Tabletop Discussion
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Class power and Subclass design space: a discussion
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<blockquote data-quote="Minigiant" data-source="post: 8011491" data-attributes="member: 63508"><p>No, I'm saying that they should have asked "what is a X" then plopped that idea into the world. Then see which of the X's aspects and features from past D&D match the image and aid the X in their play in D&D worlds.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's literally what I'm saying.</p><p></p><p>A Westerosi ranger, a Middle Earth ranger, or a High Middle AgeEnglish ranger would get eaten in the FR or Nethir Vale. (Which is funny because the ranger is based on Aragorn and he's probably the only ranger in ME who could survive with their skills past level 2) Whereas a WOW ranger would do find in the Underdark. Rexxar or Sylvanas would have no problem handling drow warriors and Lloth priests as they fights demons, ogres, monsters and wizards. Same with Garruk from MTG.</p><p></p><p>Some concepts from outside of D&D might have to change when imported to D&D. Some might have to change classes. You have to define the concept then adopt it to the game. You cannot import Jon Snow or Robin Hood straight into D&D as a ranger. Things would have to change as the game is built for Greyhawk not England or the Seven Kingdom..</p><p></p><p>I constantly see people wanting to import nonDD character into the game under a class with no changes. These people have to accept either either they (1) must choose another change or (2) accept D&Dism in their character to make an imperfect fit. The class systems of D&D can only handle so many archetypes before it breaks. Therefore some ideas might have to adapt on their end.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Exactly. There was too much focus on replicating the past's skeleton not enough focus on replicating the mindset of the members of the class.</p><p></p><p>What does a druid, monk, ranger or sorcerer has this class feature?</p><p>How does a druid, monk, ranger or sorcerer handle the challenges they are expected to face?</p><p>How would that class feature express themselves in the Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Ravnica, or Nethir Vale?</p><p>What would the core core features of a druid, monk, ranger or sorcerer?</p><p>Which class features would be optional for a druid, monk, ranger or sorcerer as a subclass?</p><p>What are the limitations of the druid's, monk's, ranger's or sorcerer's features?</p><p></p><p>A designer has to figure out how much "Aragorn of the Forgotten Realms", "Harry Potter of Eberron" or "Aang of Krynn" changes and make them fit with other concepts.</p><p></p><p>Because there is only so much design space, Add too much and you get the druid. Add too little you get the ranger.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Minigiant, post: 8011491, member: 63508"] No, I'm saying that they should have asked "what is a X" then plopped that idea into the world. Then see which of the X's aspects and features from past D&D match the image and aid the X in their play in D&D worlds. That's literally what I'm saying. A Westerosi ranger, a Middle Earth ranger, or a High Middle AgeEnglish ranger would get eaten in the FR or Nethir Vale. (Which is funny because the ranger is based on Aragorn and he's probably the only ranger in ME who could survive with their skills past level 2) Whereas a WOW ranger would do find in the Underdark. Rexxar or Sylvanas would have no problem handling drow warriors and Lloth priests as they fights demons, ogres, monsters and wizards. Same with Garruk from MTG. Some concepts from outside of D&D might have to change when imported to D&D. Some might have to change classes. You have to define the concept then adopt it to the game. You cannot import Jon Snow or Robin Hood straight into D&D as a ranger. Things would have to change as the game is built for Greyhawk not England or the Seven Kingdom.. I constantly see people wanting to import nonDD character into the game under a class with no changes. These people have to accept either either they (1) must choose another change or (2) accept D&Dism in their character to make an imperfect fit. The class systems of D&D can only handle so many archetypes before it breaks. Therefore some ideas might have to adapt on their end. Exactly. There was too much focus on replicating the past's skeleton not enough focus on replicating the mindset of the members of the class. What does a druid, monk, ranger or sorcerer has this class feature? How does a druid, monk, ranger or sorcerer handle the challenges they are expected to face? How would that class feature express themselves in the Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Ravnica, or Nethir Vale? What would the core core features of a druid, monk, ranger or sorcerer? Which class features would be optional for a druid, monk, ranger or sorcerer as a subclass? What are the limitations of the druid's, monk's, ranger's or sorcerer's features? A designer has to figure out how much "Aragorn of the Forgotten Realms", "Harry Potter of Eberron" or "Aang of Krynn" changes and make them fit with other concepts. Because there is only so much design space, Add too much and you get the druid. Add too little you get the ranger. [/QUOTE]
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