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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 9093553" data-attributes="member: 87792">Still an entire subsystem.And I've advocated, I think in this thread, for "those other smites" to stop being spells and instead work like the rogue's new Cunning Strike or whatever it is called.I have no problem with the final subclass ability coming at epic tier (quite the reverse, in fact; I think that every subclass should have a basically broken epic capstone). Neither do I have a problem with the idea of dropping the rogue second subclass ability in level or tweaking the bard to get a fourth subclass ability.It's the enforced homogeneity that I dislike. Mostly because different subclasses are structured differently. The only spaces in the full caster lineup for subclasses after 3 are 6, 10, 14, and 18-20 because they should never have a subclass level at the same level they get a new spell level beyond 3rd; that's already the strongest class feature in the game - and an ASI plus a new spell is already powerful enough. By contrast if you are going to make a paragon tier fighter have an extra ASI as a class feature (and feat changes make that a much better decision in One D&D than base 5e although fighters need something more at 12) then the 4-6-8 pattern for ASIs is better for the class than moving that extra ASI, and there's a huge power budget at level 7 for fun things in the subclass to match the 4th level spells boost.I therefore like 3-6-10 for most full casters as a subclass pattern and 3-7-10 for fighters (third attack being huge so level 11 is right out). And for monks getting a huge subclass spike at level 11 rather than a smaller one at 10 is good. Similar patterns are good but are very much secondary to making the individual classes shine.Our problem children here are, of course, the rogue and bard. There's no real excuse for the second rogue subclass at level 9. But the bard simply has too many good abilities in the base class for more than a ribbon subclass ability at the end of Paragon; levels 7, 9, 11, and 13 are extra spell levels (so not there), levels 8 and 12 are ASIs (so no, especially not at 8 where they get an extra top level spell. And finally L10 is Magical Secrets - and there would be a deserved riot if that got dropped or kicked back to 14, while it's way too powerful for a non-ribbon subclass ability unless you make the magical secrets the subclass ability. This is the problem with full caster bards - they just try to do too much to pack in everything you might want. Do you want to be the one to tell the bard players they are losing Magical Secrets?</blockquote>

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