Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Class spell lists and pact magic are back!
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="mamba" data-source="post: 9115740" data-attributes="member: 7034611"><p>I sure hope so, because I flat out told you why I did it. Your need to contradict everything, including me telling you why I do something rather than just what I am saying, is a bit weird though</p><p></p><p></p><p>I did not do that because of your Coke statement, as I had said. I said it because your position is a combination of unfounded claims, contradictions and plain nonsense</p><p></p><p></p><p>or rather, you provided nothing that rises to the level of evidence and therefore I summarized it as 'I do not know' for you. Would have saved you hundreds of words and still be accurate.</p><p></p><p>Your position is 'WotC is a large company. Large companies know what they are doing and would have considered all concerns being raised here. Therefore WotC conducting the survey the way they do shows that there is no issue with it', which as far as evidence goes I find quite a bit lacking. I summarized your position earlier as 'I got nothing, but I am not convinced by your claims', and this is still all it is, you just needed a lot more words to get there</p><p></p><p></p><p>I would differentiate between the two if WotC did. As it stands, there is no need for that. If you want to insist on there being a difference, then you have to show 1) that WotC has defined ‘good design’ differently from ‘popular design’ and 2) is using a different metric for this, that wins out over the popular vote. If you do neither, then WotC is equating the two, just like me. So far you have not been able to show either and have agreed with me that the popular vote wins out even if there were a second metric, so....</p><p></p><p></p><p>This does not show that WotC is using some other metric for good design, in fact it reinforces that they do not.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Nice to hear, so we finally agree that they use the percentages to decide what to include / improve / abandon. Until now you claimed that this is not what they are looking for and that is why they are not asking for it explicitly.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So now we should be back to 'are the questions they are asking the best way to get to the answers they are seeking', and my answer to that is still 'no', and you still have not explained why it is a good way.</p><p></p><p></p><p>good = popular. Until you provide WotC’s definition for good design and that is different, you have nothing to counter with, as usual. All you do is express your incredulity, that is not an argument, let alone evidence.</p><p></p><p>They have metrics for balanced, but not for good design, which is why they ask us about the latter, not the former</p><p></p><p></p><p>they have some ideas, so it is not entirely random like you pretend is the only alternative, and numbers are about balance more than design. If they were so good at this, 4e would never have happened and 5e wouldn’t have subclasses rated in the 20s.... this already shows you wrong</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="mamba, post: 9115740, member: 7034611"] I sure hope so, because I flat out told you why I did it. Your need to contradict everything, including me telling you why I do something rather than just what I am saying, is a bit weird though I did not do that because of your Coke statement, as I had said. I said it because your position is a combination of unfounded claims, contradictions and plain nonsense or rather, you provided nothing that rises to the level of evidence and therefore I summarized it as 'I do not know' for you. Would have saved you hundreds of words and still be accurate. Your position is 'WotC is a large company. Large companies know what they are doing and would have considered all concerns being raised here. Therefore WotC conducting the survey the way they do shows that there is no issue with it', which as far as evidence goes I find quite a bit lacking. I summarized your position earlier as 'I got nothing, but I am not convinced by your claims', and this is still all it is, you just needed a lot more words to get there I would differentiate between the two if WotC did. As it stands, there is no need for that. If you want to insist on there being a difference, then you have to show 1) that WotC has defined ‘good design’ differently from ‘popular design’ and 2) is using a different metric for this, that wins out over the popular vote. If you do neither, then WotC is equating the two, just like me. So far you have not been able to show either and have agreed with me that the popular vote wins out even if there were a second metric, so.... This does not show that WotC is using some other metric for good design, in fact it reinforces that they do not. Nice to hear, so we finally agree that they use the percentages to decide what to include / improve / abandon. Until now you claimed that this is not what they are looking for and that is why they are not asking for it explicitly. So now we should be back to 'are the questions they are asking the best way to get to the answers they are seeking', and my answer to that is still 'no', and you still have not explained why it is a good way. good = popular. Until you provide WotC’s definition for good design and that is different, you have nothing to counter with, as usual. All you do is express your incredulity, that is not an argument, let alone evidence. They have metrics for balanced, but not for good design, which is why they ask us about the latter, not the former they have some ideas, so it is not entirely random like you pretend is the only alternative, and numbers are about balance more than design. If they were so good at this, 4e would never have happened and 5e wouldn’t have subclasses rated in the 20s.... this already shows you wrong [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Class spell lists and pact magic are back!
Top