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Message: <blockquote data-quote="mamba" data-source="post: 9116139" data-attributes="member: 7034611">not really, you can easily fix that by providing anything that is more than an assertion or simple disbelief, I am still waiting for thatno, I told you where they are contradictory and you have not yet resolved that, or rather you did in your last post by agreeing with me about something you insisted for days was not the caseno, my position is the questions are not good at getting the answers they are looking for, the information we have when answering them is insufficient for our answers to accurately reflect what we want, and the terms used for the different levels are misleading by disagreeing with plain English use of them.And then we found one person in a handful that was mislead, indicating that this could be a widespread problem, which you then wanted to ignore against all reason, because anything else does not fit your narrative.And all you have to rebut any of this is 'WotC is big, they have considered all of this, nothing to see here'. You will have to do much better if you want me to take your posts seriously.No, I only have to do so once you have shown that WotC has a different idea of what good design is. I am saying that for WotC good = popular, there is nothing else to it (apart from balancing it, which WotC does by themselves). If you want me to make a distinction here, then you first have to show that WotC is making a distinction. As long as you cannot show that they make one, I have no reason to make one either.because planning and succeeding are not the same thing, which should be obvious.Depends on how well made the one that makes it in is, doesn't it. You still have not shown that there even is a distinction, I suggest you start with that.I am not misunderstanding you, I am rejecting your claim since you provide zero evidence for it. If you could fix that, we would make more progress. I am not granting you things you just assert, that is all.then explain your position better. I keep asking you things and you fail to answercorrelation is not causation, no evidence, we had that already. They are popular despite the playtest method, not because of it. Feel free to actually provide facts to the opposite, as always it is nothing but unsubstantiated claims.they had the most successful RPG for over 30 years before they even started having playtests, how is that possible? The consistent thing here is that they sell better than others, not the playtest part.you have stated it, yes, and I explained that WotC does not distinguish between the two, and therefore neither do I. I asked you to provide evidence for your claim that WotC has a different idea of what 'good design' is from it simply being the same as 'popular design', and all you can do is repeat your statement. I did not buy it the first time, I won't buy it the second time. Come with something more or move on.then show that WotC differentiates between the twononsense, I told you that WotC makes no such distinction, so for them good = popular and therefore I do not need to distinguish between the two either. That is not a fallacy. You will have to show that WotC actually does consider these two to be different things, and even then it still is not a fallacy, but at least by then I am wrong.no, I am saying that 1) they do not need us for balancing and 2) a balanced design by itself is neither good nor popularyeah right, it totally is not why they started having playtests right after it bombed, to ensure that they never release something like that again. That absolutely shows two things 1) that for WotC good = popular and 2) they cannot figure out popular by themselves.I thought you said they are good at designing and do not need the playtest for this... Also, why are you then asking in this very post "And, if WoTC is only planning on putting out designs that are popular, why on this green earth would I even be able to find examples of them putting out unpopular designs?!" Sounds more like you "are just twisting and conflating words to try and "win""...This has gone on long enough, at this point I want exactly two things from you1) tell me what criteria WotC uses to identify and compare good designs, otherwise stop claiming that good and popular are not the same thing, because all the evidence we have points to exactly that.You can also just move on from this, as I said this is completely irrelevant to the case I am making, so I am not even sure why you keep bringing it up2) tell me how the way the survey is structured is a great way to get accurate answers by addressing the concerns I raised and show 1) how it is simple for the participants to communicate that they a) like the proposal enough to include it as is, b) like it but want improvements, or c) do not like it and want it thrown out, and 2) how it is easy for WotC to pick up on that (without everyone having to fill out the text box). Same here, if you cannot do that, then all the evidence we have is the problems with it that I brought up.I assume you cannot answer this any better than you have so far (which is not at all), but then we are done, you then have nothing that is worth discussing. All you do have is unsubstantiated claims and incredulity. That is simply not enough, no matter how often you repeat it or how much of that you pile on.</blockquote>

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