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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9117467" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Like official company releases? The Lead Designer talking about the process? The successful sales numbers of multiple products that have undergone the survey? Or do I need internal memos and a full documentation of their internal data?You misinterpreted my answers in a way that made them seem contradictory. I've corrected you on that consistently, and you have consistently insisted that I simply don't know what I am talking about.Okay. If WoTC isn't getting good data on what makes a successful product from their surveys, why was Tasha's a critical and financial success? Why did Xanathar's win awards for how good it was? Every single product with player facing material WoTC has released, using this survey data which according to you is not well-equipped for getting them accurate and useful data... has been a success. You are insisting they are Mr. Magoo, blindly wandering around and just stumbling into success after success after success. And this is based solely on... your own personal interpretation of their survey intent and their survey design, which you insist must be correct.Why do I need more evidence that their surveys are working, than the historical evidence that every time they've used the survey data... it has worked?That is nonsense. And fully irrelevant.So then it would be easy for you to find a design they put out, using the survey data, that was unpopular. Or a design that was universally popular with hundreds of thousands of people (not just your personal echo chamber) that they did not put out.I have not failed to answer. I have answered you repeatedly. You just insist I must be wrong.So you can provide evidence of that claim? Evidence that they are popular in spite of the playtest method and not because of it? I'd like to see that evidence. I'm sure it is very strong and not your personal opinion.If they didn't need the playtest data to improve their game, how come 5th edition, using their playtest method, has succeeded beyond all other editions of the game? And heck, if they are such highly skilled game designer that they can make the most successful RPG of all time with bad data.... why do we want to insist that this bad data is suddenly going to lead to the creating a bad product for the first time in this entire span?How do you propose I do that? Seriously, what evidence are you looking for here? You don't even believe that the sky-high sales of 5e proves it has a solid design, you just seem to think it is because WoTC happens to be making DnD and therefore it would be successful regardless of what they did. It is almost like you believe the success of DnD has absolutely nothing to do with WoTC.No, it is still literally a fallacy. Whether or not WoTC is engaging in the same fallacy is immaterial.So a balanced design is not a good design. You can't say "no I don't think that" then immediately say it again.......So... an incredibly well-designed game, which was unpopular... does not support the idea that good design and popularity are seperate... because it wasn't successful, and they wanted to make it... popular... And further, this proves to you that they can't figure out popularity of a product. Which implies the surveys are about the popularity of the product. The thing I keep saying that you keep saying I'm not supporting or saying... ......So you completely agree with my position. Because 4e is the ultimate expression of my position, and you just said it proves to you... my exact position.You thought incorrectly, again. And, again, if something that didn't go through the survey process is your only evidence of something that failed, how does that show the survey process is bad? It would be like claiming that since you made mistakes before using a calculator, that the calculator you are using must be broken. It is nonsensical.I keep bringing it up because it is fundamental to your misunderstanding of the survey. To the point that just above you disproved your own points in the discussion of 4e, and seemingly haven't even realized it.And all your evidence is nothing except a miniscule number of people insisting it is a problem, because they didn't get the results they wanted. For all those getting a version of the game they are happy with... the survey is clearly working. And since that large base of people who the survey is trying to appeal to... it is working. I mean, you'd think if the survey WASN'T working, Crawford would have at some point over the last few years made a comment about how the survey data wasn't matching with the reception they were getting. You keep acting like you have iron-clad evidence that proves WoTC's incompetence, but you just have the natural results of not appealing to everyone all the time.</blockquote>

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