steeldragons
Steeliest of the dragons
Lots n' lots of threads over the passed few months about this class and that class and what should/could/would this class get that that class doesn't and what makes this class a class and that class not this class, features or bugs, this gets feats or skills, that can be done with a theme or background or specialty, etc... etc...
SO, as more playtest stuff is released and more thread ideas are coming around and, I optimistically hope, more consensus about certain (or at least some) classes and/or class features, I thought maybe I'd try to lay out as much stuff as I could with a heavy dose of where I hope to see things continue to progress...from a "which features/abilities [should or I would like to see] go where" perspective instead of a "which classes [should or i would like to see] get what" side...if that makes any sense.
That is, instead of saying "Fighter - I think they should have this", say "Combat Superiority - Fighters". See what.which mechanics and class ability/feature goes to whom, which classes share some things and what is the "individual/iconic/archetypal" thing that each class has that is its own...
So...fasten yer seatbelts, boys...you know the rest.
Animal Companion: I would like this to fall under a "Beastmaster" or "Animal Handler" background or specialty that is available either to everyone (anyone could have a "pet", mages or warlocks might need/use this as a first step to get a familiar? I don't like the familiar as a feature of the Magic-user BG at allll!) OR, more likely and I wouldn't mind, a specialty variant for Druids and Rangers. I do NOT want to see "animal companion" as a default feature of ANY class...every druid running around with a wolf or bear or panther and every ranger running around with a wolf or bear or panther. No thank you.
Arcane Magic: Mages, Sorcerers (though I think they should be a specialty not their own class), and Warlocks. It's their thing, though each gets their own special way of doing it. Bards have their own spell list that includes some Arcane spell effects as well, notably illusions and enchantments.
"At-will Magic": All spellcasters have this already in the form of their cantrips or orisons. But specifically, this is/should be the Warlock's main thing. They, moreso than any other magic-using class have should be built upon "at will magics" that are then supplemented as they gain levels with Favors and Boons [see below] from their pact/patron.
Auras: I think this says "Paladin" more than anything else. They could be applied separately or be amongst the uses of the Paladin's "Channel Divinity" powers. But they would be something that can be "evoked" or "generated" (depending on how you fluffed it) by Paladins only.
Berserking/Raging: This would be a mechanic to be used to simulate "the Class formerly known as Barbarian". I do not wish to see a Barbarian class in 5e. But a Fighter or other martial class or even druid maybe, with this specialty/theme, could be a nasty facsimile. If there IS a Barbarian as a class, obviously this is their specific/solo shtick.
Boons: Paladins and Warlocks. A long lasting, preferably non-flashy, kind of ongoing effect or ability granted by their "patron" (whether that's a deity, other powerful being or, in the Paladin's case, an ideal or virtue. The fluff isn't really important, the mechanic of Favors and Boons coming from a "patron" is the essence here).
Channel: [Divinity] Clerics and Paladins; [Nature] Druids. For various effects dependent on the user's patron deity: iconically (and ideally to my mind) this would be where the Cleric Turn Undead and the Druid's Shapeshifting would be placed, but there are a myriad of other abilities that could/would fit into this mechanic. In the case of Paladins, this "Channeling" mechanic would be slotted in as one of their "Favors" or "Boons." Possibly also for the Warlock. I could also see this applied, down the road, as "Channel [Spirit]" mechanic for a Shaman class.
Combat Superiority: Fighters. This is (and should remain) the fighter's personal shtick. They get this and no one else does. Least until, maybe, it gets used in some future/expansion/prestige fighter-based class. But to start with, this is the fighter's own thing.
Divine Magic: Clerics. This is the Cleric's thing. End of story. Other classes, obviously can use magics that simulate certain spell effects...much of what I'd like to see on a Bardic Spell/Song List including healing and bolstering/resisting spell effects would come from this list, but not specifically "Divine magic" of its own (though could certainly be fluffed that way if you liked).
Favors: These go to the Warlock and Paladin. They are the more combat or damage oriented (and flashy) partners to the "Boons" listed above.
Favored Enemy/Quarry: This belongs to the Ranger...if they want it. I don't see this a the Ranger's solo defining feature, but a theme/specialty for them to add or improve with if the character so chooses. I could see it applied to a Barbarian also, or any Fighter class, actually.
Favored Terrain: Build into Rangers and Druids. Some kind of mechanic that offers bonuses to damage and/or attacks and/or AC and/or movement when in their "element", so to speak. And then some way for them to add different environments as they level and gain experience in/with other terrains (not just "Ok, I leveled up, I'll add Desert now..." when the PC has never set foot in a desert yet. No.)
Fighting Styles/Exploits/Maneuvers: Apply to Fighters, Rangers, Paladins, Rogues, Monks (Assassins, Barbarians and Warlords, too, if they make the grade as separate classes which I would prefer they do not). Whatever you call them, they are the martial classes' bread and butter. Anyone who does not possess Spell use (and note I do not want the default Paladin or Ranger to have actual spell use) is able to take/gain some of these.
Herbalist/Potion/Poison Making and Use: This would be built in for Assassins and Rangers. Other classes might gain it through backgrounds (i.e. "Gardener" or "Alchemist") or included in Specialties (that don't come to mind right now).
Lore: This could be the Bard's solo thing...but then I could also see it as a secondary class feature for mages...but probably more apt for a background or specialty there (scholar or sage or what have you.) So yeah, this is the Bard's thing. An automatic chance to have some knowledge (and range of accuracy) about just about anything.
"Memorized/Prepared Casting" [I am DESperately trying to remove the term "Vancian" from D&D]: This is the Mage a.k.a. Wizard shtick, Fire n' Forget" method, for accessing Arcane Magic. Warlocks, Sorcerers and Bards (to my thinking) ought to have their own/significantly lesser tables for utilizing arcane effects with this method in addition to their own.
"Mind over Matter" or "Ki/Chi/Kung-fu/Martial Arts stuff": This belongs to the Monk and no other. An ability, or series thereof, that increases and expands with level/experience.
Nature Magic: Belongs to the Druid first and foremost. This is their personal shtick and while others, including the Bard, Ranger-variants, and potentially in the future a "Shaman" or "Witch" class might duplicate some of their effects, the Druid is the class that has them all and rules Nature magic.
Ritual Casting: Lengthy and expensive effects that are accessible to anyone. I don't see this as a Class feature specific to any particular class we'll be starting with...though some future Thaumaturgist or "Ceremonial Magician" class or specialty I could totally see this as a built in mechanic.
Skill Sets a.k.a. "Schemes": Already done as the Rogue's thing. I think it makes a bunch of sense and seems to be working well (least I haven't heard any complaints about it compared to certain other class mechanical things). I could see it for Rangers also, but I think I would prefer that this be the thing that only Rogues get.
Sneak Attack: Rogues, Assassins (obviously) and I'd give it to Monks too. Possibly Rangers could take it with the right BG or specialty but I don't think I would built it into the class.
Spontaneous Casting: This, obviously, is the traditional niche of the Sorcerer class. We have seen 5e include it for Clerical casting as well and I have no issue with that at all! Now, I would prefer there not to be a "Sorcerer" class, but rather a Sorcerer specialty for any Mage/Wizard to take and thus gain some spontaneous casting of their own. But I doubt that will happen. Regardless, I would like to see some theme or specialty (even "Advanced"/not allowed til high level) that would allow Mages to spontaneously cast a certain [minor] amount of their spells.
Temporary Healing/Hit Points: This would fall under the Warlord and/or Barbarian shtick. One does it for others (warlord) and the other does it to themselves (barbarians). This is, of course, if these are their own classes and I would much prefer to see them as specialty/theme builds off of other classes. It could just as easily fall under some kind of "inspirational" specialty or background (a skill found under "noble" maybe) that pretty much anyone could use. But it is a "one of many class features" kind of things and not something I see as a "only class X gets this."
Tracking: The Ranger's thing. End of story. Built into the default class. Whatever other bells and whistles you want to apply to your individual Ranger du jour (magic/no magic, fighting styles, animals/no animals, enemies/quarry/no favored anything, etc. etc.), they can all track.
Trap Laying & Disarming: Rangers & Assassins. Potentially Rogues and Bards with the right schemes and/or specialties, but I wouldn't build it in as a class skill for bards.
...who and/or what have I missed? We likey? No likey? Am I speculating too much or not enough?
Oh, and happy holiday/Labor Day Weekend to all my fellow Americans. To those who aren't, happy Sunday anyway.
--Steel Dragons
SO, as more playtest stuff is released and more thread ideas are coming around and, I optimistically hope, more consensus about certain (or at least some) classes and/or class features, I thought maybe I'd try to lay out as much stuff as I could with a heavy dose of where I hope to see things continue to progress...from a "which features/abilities [should or I would like to see] go where" perspective instead of a "which classes [should or i would like to see] get what" side...if that makes any sense.
That is, instead of saying "Fighter - I think they should have this", say "Combat Superiority - Fighters". See what.which mechanics and class ability/feature goes to whom, which classes share some things and what is the "individual/iconic/archetypal" thing that each class has that is its own...
So...fasten yer seatbelts, boys...you know the rest.
Animal Companion: I would like this to fall under a "Beastmaster" or "Animal Handler" background or specialty that is available either to everyone (anyone could have a "pet", mages or warlocks might need/use this as a first step to get a familiar? I don't like the familiar as a feature of the Magic-user BG at allll!) OR, more likely and I wouldn't mind, a specialty variant for Druids and Rangers. I do NOT want to see "animal companion" as a default feature of ANY class...every druid running around with a wolf or bear or panther and every ranger running around with a wolf or bear or panther. No thank you.
Arcane Magic: Mages, Sorcerers (though I think they should be a specialty not their own class), and Warlocks. It's their thing, though each gets their own special way of doing it. Bards have their own spell list that includes some Arcane spell effects as well, notably illusions and enchantments.
"At-will Magic": All spellcasters have this already in the form of their cantrips or orisons. But specifically, this is/should be the Warlock's main thing. They, moreso than any other magic-using class have should be built upon "at will magics" that are then supplemented as they gain levels with Favors and Boons [see below] from their pact/patron.
Auras: I think this says "Paladin" more than anything else. They could be applied separately or be amongst the uses of the Paladin's "Channel Divinity" powers. But they would be something that can be "evoked" or "generated" (depending on how you fluffed it) by Paladins only.
Berserking/Raging: This would be a mechanic to be used to simulate "the Class formerly known as Barbarian". I do not wish to see a Barbarian class in 5e. But a Fighter or other martial class or even druid maybe, with this specialty/theme, could be a nasty facsimile. If there IS a Barbarian as a class, obviously this is their specific/solo shtick.
Boons: Paladins and Warlocks. A long lasting, preferably non-flashy, kind of ongoing effect or ability granted by their "patron" (whether that's a deity, other powerful being or, in the Paladin's case, an ideal or virtue. The fluff isn't really important, the mechanic of Favors and Boons coming from a "patron" is the essence here).
Channel: [Divinity] Clerics and Paladins; [Nature] Druids. For various effects dependent on the user's patron deity: iconically (and ideally to my mind) this would be where the Cleric Turn Undead and the Druid's Shapeshifting would be placed, but there are a myriad of other abilities that could/would fit into this mechanic. In the case of Paladins, this "Channeling" mechanic would be slotted in as one of their "Favors" or "Boons." Possibly also for the Warlock. I could also see this applied, down the road, as "Channel [Spirit]" mechanic for a Shaman class.
Combat Superiority: Fighters. This is (and should remain) the fighter's personal shtick. They get this and no one else does. Least until, maybe, it gets used in some future/expansion/prestige fighter-based class. But to start with, this is the fighter's own thing.
Divine Magic: Clerics. This is the Cleric's thing. End of story. Other classes, obviously can use magics that simulate certain spell effects...much of what I'd like to see on a Bardic Spell/Song List including healing and bolstering/resisting spell effects would come from this list, but not specifically "Divine magic" of its own (though could certainly be fluffed that way if you liked).
Favors: These go to the Warlock and Paladin. They are the more combat or damage oriented (and flashy) partners to the "Boons" listed above.
Favored Enemy/Quarry: This belongs to the Ranger...if they want it. I don't see this a the Ranger's solo defining feature, but a theme/specialty for them to add or improve with if the character so chooses. I could see it applied to a Barbarian also, or any Fighter class, actually.
Favored Terrain: Build into Rangers and Druids. Some kind of mechanic that offers bonuses to damage and/or attacks and/or AC and/or movement when in their "element", so to speak. And then some way for them to add different environments as they level and gain experience in/with other terrains (not just "Ok, I leveled up, I'll add Desert now..." when the PC has never set foot in a desert yet. No.)
Fighting Styles/Exploits/Maneuvers: Apply to Fighters, Rangers, Paladins, Rogues, Monks (Assassins, Barbarians and Warlords, too, if they make the grade as separate classes which I would prefer they do not). Whatever you call them, they are the martial classes' bread and butter. Anyone who does not possess Spell use (and note I do not want the default Paladin or Ranger to have actual spell use) is able to take/gain some of these.
Herbalist/Potion/Poison Making and Use: This would be built in for Assassins and Rangers. Other classes might gain it through backgrounds (i.e. "Gardener" or "Alchemist") or included in Specialties (that don't come to mind right now).
Lore: This could be the Bard's solo thing...but then I could also see it as a secondary class feature for mages...but probably more apt for a background or specialty there (scholar or sage or what have you.) So yeah, this is the Bard's thing. An automatic chance to have some knowledge (and range of accuracy) about just about anything.
"Memorized/Prepared Casting" [I am DESperately trying to remove the term "Vancian" from D&D]: This is the Mage a.k.a. Wizard shtick, Fire n' Forget" method, for accessing Arcane Magic. Warlocks, Sorcerers and Bards (to my thinking) ought to have their own/significantly lesser tables for utilizing arcane effects with this method in addition to their own.
"Mind over Matter" or "Ki/Chi/Kung-fu/Martial Arts stuff": This belongs to the Monk and no other. An ability, or series thereof, that increases and expands with level/experience.
Nature Magic: Belongs to the Druid first and foremost. This is their personal shtick and while others, including the Bard, Ranger-variants, and potentially in the future a "Shaman" or "Witch" class might duplicate some of their effects, the Druid is the class that has them all and rules Nature magic.
Ritual Casting: Lengthy and expensive effects that are accessible to anyone. I don't see this as a Class feature specific to any particular class we'll be starting with...though some future Thaumaturgist or "Ceremonial Magician" class or specialty I could totally see this as a built in mechanic.
Skill Sets a.k.a. "Schemes": Already done as the Rogue's thing. I think it makes a bunch of sense and seems to be working well (least I haven't heard any complaints about it compared to certain other class mechanical things). I could see it for Rangers also, but I think I would prefer that this be the thing that only Rogues get.
Sneak Attack: Rogues, Assassins (obviously) and I'd give it to Monks too. Possibly Rangers could take it with the right BG or specialty but I don't think I would built it into the class.
Spontaneous Casting: This, obviously, is the traditional niche of the Sorcerer class. We have seen 5e include it for Clerical casting as well and I have no issue with that at all! Now, I would prefer there not to be a "Sorcerer" class, but rather a Sorcerer specialty for any Mage/Wizard to take and thus gain some spontaneous casting of their own. But I doubt that will happen. Regardless, I would like to see some theme or specialty (even "Advanced"/not allowed til high level) that would allow Mages to spontaneously cast a certain [minor] amount of their spells.
Temporary Healing/Hit Points: This would fall under the Warlord and/or Barbarian shtick. One does it for others (warlord) and the other does it to themselves (barbarians). This is, of course, if these are their own classes and I would much prefer to see them as specialty/theme builds off of other classes. It could just as easily fall under some kind of "inspirational" specialty or background (a skill found under "noble" maybe) that pretty much anyone could use. But it is a "one of many class features" kind of things and not something I see as a "only class X gets this."
Tracking: The Ranger's thing. End of story. Built into the default class. Whatever other bells and whistles you want to apply to your individual Ranger du jour (magic/no magic, fighting styles, animals/no animals, enemies/quarry/no favored anything, etc. etc.), they can all track.
Trap Laying & Disarming: Rangers & Assassins. Potentially Rogues and Bards with the right schemes and/or specialties, but I wouldn't build it in as a class skill for bards.
...who and/or what have I missed? We likey? No likey? Am I speculating too much or not enough?
Oh, and happy holiday/Labor Day Weekend to all my fellow Americans. To those who aren't, happy Sunday anyway.
--Steel Dragons
or, if you prefer, "Invocations" [Which I do not like for warlocks since for me "invocation" has a distinctly more clerical/religious flavor...you are invoking, that is "calling upon/out/down", from your power source...that doesn't strike me as something Warlocks do, but Clerics.] B'anyway, that's why I was thinking "at will" for warlocks. Minor lil' magical effects (though truth be told, what I've seen of the damage for Eldritch Blast strikes me as a biiiit overpowered.)
But as you say, even if they are classes all their own, this as a Class feature/separate mechanic is probably not really needed.
