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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Primitive Screwhead" data-source="post: 6010022" data-attributes="member: 20805">I am not sure there will ever really be a consensus. Back in the early days of 3e there was a pile up of heated conversations regarding multi-classing that boiled down to a split in the community between players who saw the class as defining the character.. meaning that if you were playing a Barbarian you had to come from the frozen north, have broken teeth, swing a large sword and grunt allot. The other players saw classes as groups of abilities that combine into a unique expression of the character, so having a halfling 'Barbarian' sling-wielder who grew up in the mean streets of the Shire was perfectly okay.Given that my first 3x character ended up being a Barbarian 2/Fighter 3/Bard 2/Rogue 1 it should be easy to guess which side I was on. Almost made it to being the first illiterate Arcane Archer!Anyway, my point in all of this is that if you really want strong mechanical bits that feel like 'this is a fighter', you really need to relook at the entire class concept and break it down. What I would love to see is something like:Main classes of Fighter, Thief, Cleric, Mage, Druid, and Warlord, Psion/Monk  Each class has a set of styles that enhance it, such as fighting style, thief scheme, Vancian Mage, Sorcerer, etc..  Each class has a Theme that enhances it. Other themes exist, such as Archer, Sneak Thief, Barbarian, Wilderness Ranger.1st level characters get to pick 1 class, 1 background, and 2 themes. Normally you would pick both the 'Fighter' class and 'Fighter' theme, and then your background and additional theme flesh out the character.Multi-classing is done at first level or with the use of a feat to pick up a new Theme.Multi-classing is also how you get the 'other' classes like Warlock, Paladin, Ranger, etc.. Your version of Aragorn could be a Fighter with the Warlord and Ranger themes, with a later multiclass into Paladin/Holy Warrior.If this was done, then you are really only looking at 7 'archtype' mechanics to deal with at the class level:Fighter: Expertise dice and weapon mastery stylesThief: Thief skills and backstab Cleric : divine magic and domainsMage: arcane magic and casting modes {vancian, sorcerer, etc}Druid: primal magic and either animal companion or wildshapeWarlord: leadership based auras and diplomatic skillsPsion/Monk: unarmed combat and psionics/ki magicBut what about the Bard you ask? {cause you have to <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> } Go back to the previous incarnation where the Bard is a Fighter/Thief/Druid!Do it right and each class and theme would fit one of the three 'pillars' best, allowing players to mix and match to their hearts content. Would be very nice if there was a tag or keyword to help out with that.Splatbooks could expand the Themes, feats, and styles.. all of which would be 'modular' aka optional.How to make this 'feel' like any previous edition? limit the character builds.Basic: just race and class1e: add 1 theme2e: add background and styles3e: add second theme4e: allow customized themesWant to limit multiclassing? either place level/tier limits on the feat or ban it outright.As long as each theme and style only broadens the character, than each of these builds can exist at the same table...hmm, I think I went off track a bit! Never mind, back to the thread in progress!</blockquote>

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