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Message: <blockquote data-quote="(Psi)SeveredHead" data-source="post: 5357862" data-attributes="member: 1165">Okay, obsolete then. I usually used monster rules "flavored" as classes, but I didn't know the NPC rules were considered that bad.Didn't Fallcrest and the MM1 use these rules though? What does so-and-so the 8th-level tiefling rogue mean? Although I notice they didn't have daily powers, supporting the assertion that said rules have never actually been used.They had the same hit points as equal-leveled monsters. Even more than PCs, since they usually got 8 hp/level vs the PCs getting only ~5.On this I agree. Especially for paladins or some non-core NPCs like shamans <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Or anything that does any kind of summoning. Or a lot of dailies.Unlike the template, it never said they were elites, so they'd have been worth the same XP as a monster of the same level.I still have a hate-on for the class template though, although I suppose I could say the same thing for a lot of templates (eg lich; it's an elite, but other than loads of hit points it doesn't feel like it!). I'd rather just make a controller/soldier/whatever-type from scratch and use re-statted (but identically flavored/effected) powers.</blockquote>