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<blockquote data-quote="Dan'L" data-source="post: 4974639" data-attributes="member: 68954">Sorry, I'm calling BS on this.&nbsp; Melee fighting is not a class ability, it is not definitive of a class nor it is not indicative of a unique class.&nbsp; So, you're saying that a Wizard who can effectively swing a sword makes them have multi-class fighter traits?&nbsp; Why fighter, and not: avenger, barbarian, bard, cleric, paladin, ranger, rogue, swordmage, warden, or warlord?&nbsp; Are you stuck on the notion fueled by previous editions' lack of fighter options that a fighter's defining choices have to be variations of the melee basic attack?What defines a class in 4ed, enough to make it meaningfully different from other classes?&nbsp; What traits and abilities are definitively unique to a class that make them worthwhile touchstones for measuring multi-class flexibility?&nbsp; One thing that isn't class definitive is the ability to swing a sword in melee; as written any class can do this; proficiency and a high str/melee training make it more likely to hit, but nothing prevents it.Why wouldn't they be able to cast as well as a spell caster?&nbsp; They'd be likely only a few points behind on the skill checks, and those aren't exactly as crucial as to-hit rolls.&nbsp; (For this, I'm assuming rituals, not class powers labeled as &quot;spells&quot;, because comparing the two is like comparing apples and eggs.)The point is, EVERY feat gives either more flexibility or more effectiveness.&nbsp; If you wanted to, you could probably twist out a situation where any of them reflect what a different class could do.&nbsp; That doesn't mean that they are meaningfully &quot;shoring up multiclassing.&quot;&nbsp; It just means that you find them useful in building up a character concept that varied slightly from the 100% base class build.&nbsp; That's exactly what every feat is for: taking the central nugget of a pure class and tweaking it to better reflect the character you want to play.&nbsp; It's not about multiclassing, it's about character building.&nbsp; Multiclassing is one tool in character building, but not every tool for character building is about &quot;shoring up multiclassing.&quot;-Dan'L</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Dan'L, post: 4974639, member: 68954"] Sorry, I'm calling BS on this. Melee fighting is not a class ability, it is not definitive of a class nor it is not indicative of a unique class. So, you're saying that a Wizard who can effectively swing a sword makes them have multi-class fighter traits? Why fighter, and not: avenger, barbarian, bard, cleric, paladin, ranger, rogue, swordmage, warden, or warlord? Are you stuck on the notion fueled by previous editions' lack of fighter options that a fighter's defining choices have to be variations of the melee basic attack? What defines a class in 4ed, enough to make it meaningfully different from other classes? What traits and abilities are definitively unique to a class that make them worthwhile touchstones for measuring multi-class flexibility? One thing that [I]isn't[/I] class definitive is the ability to swing a sword in melee; as written any class can do this; proficiency and a high str/melee training make it more likely to hit, but nothing prevents it. Why wouldn't they be able to cast as well as a spell caster? They'd be likely only a few points behind on the skill checks, and those aren't exactly as crucial as to-hit rolls. (For this, I'm assuming rituals, not class powers labeled as "spells", because comparing the two is like comparing apples and eggs.) The point is, EVERY feat gives either more flexibility or more effectiveness. If you wanted to, you could probably twist out a situation where any of them reflect what a different class could do. That doesn't mean that they are meaningfully "shoring up multiclassing." It just means that you find them useful in building up a character concept that varied slightly from the 100% base class build. That's exactly what every feat is for: taking the central nugget of a pure class and tweaking it to better reflect the character you want to play. It's not about multiclassing, it's about character building. Multiclassing is one tool in character building, but not every tool for character building is about "shoring up multiclassing." -Dan'L [/QUOTE]

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