Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 5395711" data-attributes="member: 35909">I'm playing in a game at level 3 with a Summoner right now, and this seems correct, at least for now.  The Eidolon basically IS the PC, and he does ok grapling things and tanking.  The actual summoner has yet to do anything in combat other than summon more stuff or buff/heal the eidolon.  Could just be player's choice in how to do things, or the optimal playstyle, not sure.It does have some unique abilities, like being a pokedex (monster lore) and stealth (without any mechanic to make it very useful for the class other than actual recon, which in D&D too often tends to get the scout killed...), but those are minor party roles.  You say it can be ok as a melee class, I think there's at least half a dozen classes better at it than that, including druid and cleric, if you want casting.I will say, I did like the concept of an archer Inquisitor with the <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/spell-lists-and-domains/domains#SD-Caves" target="_blank">Caves</a> (Earth) subdoman.  The pit spels, already hilarious and effective, are a step nicer when you have a good ranged attack to pelt people trapped in it with.  More importantly, the granted power is amazing if you go in a lot of dungeon environments (should be a lot of groups...).  (Better) Darkvision!  Spider Climb (if only it was like the slippers so you could shoot the bow while on walls/ceiling <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" /> )!  Stealth bonuses, and add your wisdom to Initiative twice!  On top of Dex!Cool uses for a sniper archer, though in a similar vein to what you said, the magic doesn't even come until 8th level.It hits the hardest, but I like Mobile Fighter better.  Since they still get Weapon Training 2-4 (so an eventual +3 with one weapon) AND Leaping Attack for a basically constant +1-5, it adds up late game.  And Mobile Fighter's just cool with all the move and attack options.I'd really love to make a Mobile Fighter with a reach weapon and Whirlwind Attack, depending on how the DM interprets WWA as working with the level 11 Rapid Attack.Just finished playing one from levels 3-8, alongside an archer ranger (it was like an 8 person party, lots of overlap).  My Zen Archer held up well, was just as good at attacking and did slightly better damage.  I could get off more shots per round with ki points and by level 8 i just plain had more attacks.  He was horribly feat starved, I actually only spent my level 3 feat on something arhcery-related (Deadly Aim), the rest there was nothing very good beyond what the massive amounts of bonus feats covered so I ended up with Dodge, Deflect Arrows, and Spider Step (for coolness).  I think 3-10 if the Zen archer's definite sweet spot.   Level 1 is godawful, and also SHAME on Paizo for not changing the Zen Archer monk's starting gold.  When you focus on BOWS, you need a tad bit more cash than the regular unarmed monk.  Past level 10, the bonus feat options just aren't very good and you stop getting particularly good class features.  Really, past level 6, I'd gladly trade every single Zen Archer variant class feature for the normal stuff, even things that don't at all benefit archery.  Level 17 might be a sudden jump in power since you can then Stunning Fist, Touch of Serenity, etc... from your bow.  But by then you're probably too far behind the Fighter and casters for it to matter.  I think in the long run, the Ranger's spellcasting, extra actions (animal companion), and earlier feat qualification (having real full BAB instead of pretend ful BAB is nice) would have pulled him decisively ahead of me.In conclusion: Nice class for the middle levels to not worry about feats, would NOT recommend for a higher level game.Yeah...I think Rogues got worse in PF, sadly.  I started the game with the Zen Archer at levels 1-2 with a Thug Rogue but had ot dump him because he just wasn't good at anything.  Even with TWF the Fighter easily outdamaged him (and he sure did hit more often!).  I tried to do a Intimiadte focus for flavor and to help the casters, but got disappointed when I realized the sorcerer and bard, through sheer charisma score, could trounce me at it.  Thanks to PF's skill system, non-class skills aren't particularly punitive or pricy to get ranks in, so my many class skills mostly just meant I had a lot of one point wonders.  It was a large party, granted, but i don't think there was a single skill I could have focused on and been significantly better at it than anyone else.  Meanwhile, squishy AC and the worst saves in the game don't help.I'm thinking of houseruling some sort of Skill Superiority class feature, similar to Fighter's Weapon Training for Rogues.  Something like +1 per 3 Rogue levels, and it applies to one skill selected at each 3rd level (so at level 6, you could have +2 stealth and acrobatics, for example).  Just...something to help.  Nevermind other things they need, like "you can sneak attack against all but total concealment."I sort of like the Rake and Thug paths, though they're slim in what they change.</blockquote>

Verification