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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 4071354" data-attributes="member: 2067">It's not hard to grasp, it just doesn't fix the problem.A) The complaint isn't directly about builds. It's about a class that appears inflexible. This is a bigger issue than "build."B) The abilities in the preview, and the text surrounding the rogue, all suggest "sneaky mobile sneak-attacker." All rogues have Sneak Attack. All rogues have Thievery and Stealth. All rogues are proficient in a limited selection of items that can be used with their abilities.C) Nothing about the preview has abilities that are outside of this archetype. This matches with previous designer statements about focusing and streamlining the classes, so it's fairly well-supported that this is intentional: that the new rogue will expressly limit the kinds of characters you can build with it more than 3e did. Part of this reason seems to be that in building a 3e rogue, you could make sub-optimal choices that would ruin your fun down the line without really knowing it. The big problem seems to be in that people *liked* the flexibility of the 3e rogue, and wanted to see that continue into 4e. It didn't, judging from the preview.If you think I'm reading into this something other than what is implied, feel free to show me where the preview says a Rogue doesn't have to have Thievery and Stealth or that a Rogue can choose a club for a weapon, or where it previews an ability that allows the Rogue to serve as a master of logic and planning, or trechary and manipulation of others.I see a rogue that is narrowly focused, and I do believe that was the POINT. The people clammoring for Sherlock Holmes might have to wait for a different splat-class, or mix-and-multiclass as was pointed out earlier in the thread.So to say it in caps: THE LIMITATIONS OF THE ROGUE GO FAR BEYOND ANY OF THIS "BUILD" NONSENSE, SO STOP BRINGING UP THE FACT THAT THE "BUILD" IS OPTIONAL. IT IS IRRELEVANT. THAT'S NOT THE PROBLEM.THANK YOU.Nope, but unless you can point to abilities that allow the creation of other archetypes, you're spouting rainbows from your behindus, building castles on sand, daydreaming of a day that isn't here, counting chickens before they hatch, and otherwise making a claim that isn't based on ANY evidence, and is, in fact, directly contradicted by most of the evidence we've seen so far (the rogue seems narrowly focused, and that narrowly focused core classes were something the designers probably shot for).</blockquote>

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