NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ThirdWizard" data-source="post: 4072029" data-attributes="member: 12037">It's a class based system.You can't do that in any D&D edition. You just think you can because you know what roles the classes are built to accommodate in previous editions. You're only fooling yourself. You don't go into 3e and say "I want to build X" and then try to make fighter or rogue or wizard work with that concept. You look at the classes first, digest the rules, then determine what you can play based on that.The exclamation points only undermine the validity of your argument. Which, really, is a poor one anyway.Thing is, that's how all class based systems work. Heck, its how point based systems work. You think Shadowrun, with its point buy ability system, doesn't influence how characters are built in its system? It certainly does. What you can be is based on the abilities you can buy. The same is true of all RPGs.What's the difference?You've read the rules if those other RPGs!When you read a system, you start to see the game based on that system. That's why we have all these discussions on implied settings, and we have for years. The idiom of the setting is based, largely, on how the PCs can interact with things. When you think about designing a character in 3e, you have the entire system to think about while doing it.You cannot think about how to create concepts in an RPG with as few data points as we have access to for 4e. Also, when making a character in 4e, after we've read the rules, we'll know what are good concepts and what are not so good concepts. These will influence the kinds of characters one thinks of making.This isn't to really say anything about the discussion at hand. This is to say that when coming up with concepts in an RPG, one makes decisions that are informed by the game system it is being designed for. This might seem like a simple, straightforward concept, but it is very important to keep in mind. When we come up with concepts for a 3e campaign, we are not doing it in a vacuum.So no, this isn't "In 4e, classes build YOU!" This is simply, "In any RPG, concept and build go hand in hand." You can't have one without the other. And, I'm sorry, that's just how it works, has always worked, and it will always work.</blockquote>

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