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Message: <blockquote data-quote="small pumpkin man" data-source="post: 4072678" data-attributes="member: 57910">3 seems to work for the 4e rogue for me, the only one I see missing is face.The only part of 4 which we know to be true is the sneak attack thing, which references 1, and is likely intentional, the reason this was okay in 3.x, is that multiclassing hurt your character, a rogue wizard does less damage which their scorching ray, and needs the extra sneak attack to get back to normal (not that it really works...), a rogue Paladin does less damage with their smite, and sneak attacking on the smite brings it back to normal(which does kinda work), with the 4e multiclassing rules we know, it won't be like that, the multiclassed character will likely be just as good at smiting and scorching as the straight character, they'll have just swapped out some abilities for others, meaning asking to stack sneak attack on top of that is quite possibly asking for too much. (not that there's anything stopping you from smiting with a rapier)6 also relies on 1, and I'd like to point out that part of the reason light blades, crossbows and slings and slings are considered appropriate for sneak attack, is that they can be disguised and hidden more easily than normal, meaning 6 isn't much of an example.So ultimately, your argument comes down to "doesn't have diplomacy as a class skill, can't sneak attack with any weapons/ability". If the Utility powers aren't relatively interesting and iconic (which since the class is supposed to skill based, would suck), then I kinda see your point, otherwise, no. As I said earlier in the thread, the rogue was one of the more open ended classes, the one people often used to make skill monkeys and bakers who didn't have great combat potential, WotC saw this as a bad thing and focused them a lot more, in the same way they saw the Paladin as being too restrictive, and opened it out some more.Guy who sneak attacks with a club is not a "type of character", it's a build. Stealthy guy with a club is, but I don't see that being particularly hard to make."virtually infinite" you're kidding right? The major difference is the flavor built into the class(which could end up being a bad thing), not any actual differences in build options.</blockquote>

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