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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 4073004" data-attributes="member: 4937">Yes, but that was exactly the sort of problem I expected 4E to solve.My problem with the barbarian was slightly different from yours though.  I wasn't so much bothered by a class whose concept was, "Warrior powered more by raw emotion than fighting skill and discipline.", although ideally speaking I would have liked to seen some variation even there.  What bothered me was that if you wanted to be "a warrior powered more by raw emotion than fighting skill and discipline" you had to accept the flavor of a wilderness primitive (and related skill choices), and conversely this seemed to imply wilderness primitives were "warriors powered more by raw emotion than fighting skill and discipline".  It was for me taking one narrow class concept - a beserker and implicitly a member of an iron age northern european - and mistaking it for a class.  Why couldn't I play a religious fanatic that was a 'warrior powered more by raw emotion than fighting skill and discipline'?  Why couldn't a play a member of a semi-secret elite warrior cult that was a 'warrior powered more by raw emotion than fighting skill and discipline'?  What about the drug crazed boxers of the boxer rebellion?  Why did I need a prestige class like 'Dwarven Defender' and all of its slight and possibly unnecessary mechanical variation?  Why couldn't barbarians be loyal to thier larger social entity and adhere to an external code by which thier actions could be judged?  And so forth.So I agree that 3E had big problems.  But that doesn't for me necessarily defend what they are doing with 4E.  In particular, 4E seems to be designed by someone who had problems with 3E that are often quite different than the problems I had with it.  It isn't being designed with me in mind.  This is quite different than the experience I had reading 3E for the first time. Most of the powers seem more like feats rather than things that provide variation in the concept.  For example, you can take a variaty of different builds in Rogue, but you can't take one that trades sneak attack for the ability to skirmish like a 3E Scout which is more in line with what I thought we'd see.</blockquote>

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