Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Classes - Primary Stat Secondary Stat
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="The Crimson Binome" data-source="post: 7343024" data-attributes="member: 6775031"><p>Just as a warning, this experiment has historically not gone well, because you end up redefining what stats mean and then everyone is confused why your Charisma replaces Strength when swinging a sword and the game is too silly to play. It's really <em>hard</em> to make Constitution a primary stat, because you can't reasonably attack anyone through it. The same was true of Charisma, before they redefined it to include innate magical power.</p><p></p><p>If you're familiar with the recently-defunct Diablo-clone known as Marvel Heroes, they attempted something very similar to this in their dying months. Leading up to that point, stat balance had gotten so bad that the only stats that anyone cared about were Strength, Energy, and Fighting; because those were the ones that affected your damage. Characters who punched or used most weapons (Juggernaut, Deadpool, Mister Fantastic) stacked Strength and Fighting because it let them hit harder. Characters who had powers, or used some weird weapons (Cyclops, Star-Lord, Doctor Strange) stacked Energy and Fighting. Durability, Intelligence, and Speed were all pretty much meaningless.</p><p></p><p>Their solution was to give every hero exactly two stats that they scaled from. For example, Mister Fantastic was defined as an Intelligence and Durability hero, so every point in either Intelligence or Durability gave him a bonus to damage; and every point in Strength or Fighting gave him effectively nothing. Even if you made him as strong as The Hulk, or as skilled as Elektra, he would never punch any harder. It was really bad, and the game didn't survive much after that.</p><p></p><p>I'm not saying that you're necessarily advocating for such an extreme, but that's the road which this line of thinking has traditionally ended up going down.</p><p>I think this is a great idea. Instead of saying that some characters can punch with their Strength and other characters can punch with their Dexterity or their Charisma, all stats should work the same for every class, but different classes should want different stats due to their specific combinations of abilities. "Everyone who cares about swinging a sword should care about Strength, at least a little bit," seems like a great place to start. But then you can distinguish classes by what <em>else</em> they can do. </p><p></p><p>If paladins care about both Strength and Wisdom, then it should be because they both swing a sword <em>and</em> cast divine spells. If they care about Charisma, then maybe it's because it augments their leadership abilities in some ways (such as through a special aura feature). If they don't particularly care about Intelligence or Dexterity, then it's because they don't have any class features which really rely on them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Crimson Binome, post: 7343024, member: 6775031"] Just as a warning, this experiment has historically not gone well, because you end up redefining what stats mean and then everyone is confused why your Charisma replaces Strength when swinging a sword and the game is too silly to play. It's really [I]hard[/I] to make Constitution a primary stat, because you can't reasonably attack anyone through it. The same was true of Charisma, before they redefined it to include innate magical power. If you're familiar with the recently-defunct Diablo-clone known as Marvel Heroes, they attempted something very similar to this in their dying months. Leading up to that point, stat balance had gotten so bad that the only stats that anyone cared about were Strength, Energy, and Fighting; because those were the ones that affected your damage. Characters who punched or used most weapons (Juggernaut, Deadpool, Mister Fantastic) stacked Strength and Fighting because it let them hit harder. Characters who had powers, or used some weird weapons (Cyclops, Star-Lord, Doctor Strange) stacked Energy and Fighting. Durability, Intelligence, and Speed were all pretty much meaningless. Their solution was to give every hero exactly two stats that they scaled from. For example, Mister Fantastic was defined as an Intelligence and Durability hero, so every point in either Intelligence or Durability gave him a bonus to damage; and every point in Strength or Fighting gave him effectively nothing. Even if you made him as strong as The Hulk, or as skilled as Elektra, he would never punch any harder. It was really bad, and the game didn't survive much after that. I'm not saying that you're necessarily advocating for such an extreme, but that's the road which this line of thinking has traditionally ended up going down. I think this is a great idea. Instead of saying that some characters can punch with their Strength and other characters can punch with their Dexterity or their Charisma, all stats should work the same for every class, but different classes should want different stats due to their specific combinations of abilities. "Everyone who cares about swinging a sword should care about Strength, at least a little bit," seems like a great place to start. But then you can distinguish classes by what [I]else[/I] they can do. If paladins care about both Strength and Wisdom, then it should be because they both swing a sword [I]and[/I] cast divine spells. If they care about Charisma, then maybe it's because it augments their leadership abilities in some ways (such as through a special aura feature). If they don't particularly care about Intelligence or Dexterity, then it's because they don't have any class features which really rely on them. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Classes - Primary Stat Secondary Stat
Top