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<blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 6197539" data-attributes="member: 5143">I never really got that impression from 2e.&nbsp; I felt it still leaned heavily on the class=profession trope.&nbsp; I started in early 2e as well but I always pretty much assumed everyone knew their class and would consider it a fairly accurate description of themselves.Sure, proficiencies and kits let people play around within the classes space a bit, but I never felt like it was changing your whole outlook on life.&nbsp; If you were a thief who took the swashbuckler kit, I imagined that the character still spent his days stealing from people but had simply learned to fight as well.&nbsp; This was in contrast to a fighter who took the swashbuckler kit for fighters who didn't steal things but learned a dramatic form of fighting.&nbsp; He likely hired himself out as a sell sword or was a soldier since he was a fighter.I think things changed a lot more dramatically with 3e when classes became more of a tool kit than an archetype or a profession.&nbsp; Though, I don't believe that was ever actually intended by the authors.&nbsp; I think someone just said &quot;Why not allow you to pick a different class each time you go up a level.&nbsp; That'll give players more choice.&quot; while fully expecting everyone to mostly take 2 classes or 3 classes and to mostly concentrate on one class.&nbsp; But once the wide world of players got a hold of the rules, it became what it became.As for the original question, I think classes are meant to be both archetypes AND professions for the most part.Even some of the ones the OP lists as non-profession classes (fighter, rogue, swashbuckler, barbarian, magic-user, and sorcerer) can be considered professions as well.&nbsp; A fighter=sellsword/mercinary/guard/bouncer/any profession that pretty much equals &quot;fighter&quot;.&nbsp; A Barbarian likely doesn't have a profession.&nbsp; The point of a barbarian is that they grew up in a primitive society likely without professions.&nbsp; What do they do on an average day?&nbsp; Be a Barbarian.&nbsp; Rogues steal things from people or act underhanded in order to get money, etc.I think I've always seen classes as the overwhelming part of your personality.&nbsp; It's who you are.&nbsp; It is likely your self identity.&nbsp; Sometimes people define themselves by their profession.&nbsp; Sometimes they define themselves by some other trait.&nbsp; I consider myself to be a Gamer even though as a profession I'm an IT professional.&nbsp; But ask someone else who they are and they might say Lawyer, Athlete, Football Player, Jock, Fireman, Hero, or any number of other descriptors.&nbsp; Someone might be a Secretary as a profession but put their enthusiasm, passion, and time into writing a book and define themselves as a Writer.&nbsp; To me, that's what class is.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Majoru Oakheart, post: 6197539, member: 5143"] I never really got that impression from 2e. I felt it still leaned heavily on the class=profession trope. I started in early 2e as well but I always pretty much assumed everyone knew their class and would consider it a fairly accurate description of themselves. Sure, proficiencies and kits let people play around within the classes space a bit, but I never felt like it was changing your whole outlook on life. If you were a thief who took the swashbuckler kit, I imagined that the character still spent his days stealing from people but had simply learned to fight as well. This was in contrast to a fighter who took the swashbuckler kit for fighters who didn't steal things but learned a dramatic form of fighting. He likely hired himself out as a sell sword or was a soldier since he was a fighter. I think things changed a lot more dramatically with 3e when classes became more of a tool kit than an archetype or a profession. Though, I don't believe that was ever actually intended by the authors. I think someone just said "Why not allow you to pick a different class each time you go up a level. That'll give players more choice." while fully expecting everyone to mostly take 2 classes or 3 classes and to mostly concentrate on one class. But once the wide world of players got a hold of the rules, it became what it became. As for the original question, I think classes are meant to be both archetypes AND professions for the most part. Even some of the ones the OP lists as non-profession classes (fighter, rogue, swashbuckler, barbarian, magic-user, and sorcerer) can be considered professions as well. A fighter=sellsword/mercinary/guard/bouncer/any profession that pretty much equals "fighter". A Barbarian likely doesn't have a profession. The point of a barbarian is that they grew up in a primitive society likely without professions. What do they do on an average day? Be a Barbarian. Rogues steal things from people or act underhanded in order to get money, etc. I think I've always seen classes as the overwhelming part of your personality. It's who you are. It is likely your self identity. Sometimes people define themselves by their profession. Sometimes they define themselves by some other trait. I consider myself to be a Gamer even though as a profession I'm an IT professional. But ask someone else who they are and they might say Lawyer, Athlete, Football Player, Jock, Fireman, Hero, or any number of other descriptors. Someone might be a Secretary as a profession but put their enthusiasm, passion, and time into writing a book and define themselves as a Writer. To me, that's what class is. [/QUOTE]

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